Commingled cards at showdown

juanez · #1 06-28-2005, 03:56 AM

I get called over to a table for a floor call.
The board is A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

The dealer explains that both guys threw their cards down at the same time and they commingled (both guys were sitting right next to each other). The dealer could not say for sure who had what.

I see: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in a messy pile.

One player insists that he had the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for the 2 pair. The dealer "thinks" this is the case.
The other player says "If the dealer doesn't know who had what cards we have to chop it - that's the rule."
I reply, "Unless you both admit what cards you had and there is no disaggreement about it, I will have surveillance review the tape and see if we can figure this out."

I asked a few times and the other guy just wouldn't admit what cards he had. He didn't say "I don't remember" or "I had the two pair - not him", he just kept saying that they had to chop it.

After a few minutes of him saying "the rule this, the rule that" I said "Look man, I want whoever had the two pair to get this pot - it's in the best interest of the game and it's just fair. If you do not remember what you had, that's fine. Surveillance will review the tape. It'll take a while and I'll have to confiscate the pot until they review the tape. If the tape doesn't show who had what, then you'll chop it."
He then says, "Give it to him."

What a douche.

Let's just hypothetically say that he wouldn't give up and inisted on chopping. If I had the tape reviewed and the tape did not reveal who had what, how would you rule this one?

Randy_Refeld · #2 06-28-2005, 04:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I see: A A 9 8 in a messy pile.

One player insists that he had the A 9 for the 2 pair. The dealer "thinks" this is the case.
The other player says "If the dealer doesn't know who had what cards we have to chop it - that's the rule."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is enough. One player claims the 2 pair, the other player was unwilling to refute that claim. Give the pot to the player claiming the two pair; there is no dispute here.

[ QUOTE ]
I asked a few times and the other guy just wouldn't admit what cards he had. He didn't say "I don't remember" or "I had the two pair - not him", he just kept saying that they had to chop it.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is asking that the pot be chopped. This is the sort of person that does not need to play in your room, he wants to win some money without the best hand.

Klepton · #3 06-28-2005, 04:22 AM

you handled it professionally, but if i was sitting at the table i would have said to the "chop" guy...

"dude you know he had the two-pair, stop angle shooting."

juanez · #4 06-28-2005, 05:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
One player claims the 2 pair, the other player was unwilling to refute that claim. Give the pot to the player claiming the two pair; there is no dispute here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever heard of such a "chopping" rule for commingled cards? I have since searched Roberts Rules and our own house rules and found nothing.

Randy_Refeld · #5 06-28-2005, 01:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Have you ever heard of such a "chopping" rule for commingled cards? I have since searched Roberts Rules and our own house rules and found nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

You will hear players claim a lot of things are rules that jsut aren't. Some a re very close to the rules and some have no basis at all. In the evenet teh cards were hopelessly mixed I would try to dtermine who threw their cards further and declare that and dead. This is also a good opportunity to remind the table to protect teir winners until the pot is pushed to them.

sekrah · #6 06-28-2005, 01:25 PM

The fact that he was saying, "Chop It". would have been good enough for me to give it to the guy who claimed he had two pair.

If I had the Two Pair, the LAST THING IN MY MIND, would be "Okay, Let's Chop!".

I wouldn't even had played games with the guy, and if he didn't like it he could have left.

Then again, I've never had your job or know what you guys are suppose to do in that situation.. i think you should be allowed to drop the hammer on them.

Al_Capone_Junior · #7 06-28-2005, 02:36 PM

At the very least I would be "having a little chat" with mr. angle-shooter, and would strongly consider kicking him square in the nuts right then and there!

If a floorman were to boot him I wouldn't find too much fault with that.

al

andyfox · #8 06-28-2005, 02:43 PM

Doesn't this remind you of the biblical story of Solomon where the two women both claimed to be the mother of a baby? Solomon would not have given the pot to the man who kept insisting that the pot be chopped. Why would he want it chopped if he had had the winning hand?

youtalkfunny · #9 06-28-2005, 03:08 PM

If I were the floorman, I would rule that both hands are dead. Neither player protected his cards. Anyone else with cards can show 'em down.

If no one else has cards, then we would chop it.

When I say "we would chop it", I mean the money would be evenly divided between the dealer and me. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]