Being your own worst enemy before, during & after a downswing

[Dj007]

I turned semi pro in March of this year and have been grinding away my bills. I only go for $150 - 200 a day 5-6 days a week. At any rate my biggest weakness of course is my emotions during a losing session. I set limits for myself of how much i can lose in a day but I find it very hard to stick to that ( I am my own worst enemy)

The worst is that when I am up (say $600 in one day) I dont adhere to my positive limits, and sometimes give it right back, throwing myself on bigger tilt. I recover in a few days from losing sessions as I hold my cool and just play my game, knowing if i stay level headed I will prevail (thats why im doing this in the 1st place)

However with a combination of many things lately my emotions took control of me and I find myself in some trouble. My question is how do you rule self control in the poker world? And how do you force yourself to quit for the day when you should know its the right decision?

Last month I moved into a beautiful townhome with my Girl and my best friend. I had to put out 75% of my bankroll to get in the house, get the place liveable and pay all my usual expenses. Emotionally I tried to recover that roll quickly and ended up losing too much money this month ($2500) Im now down to my last 1500 bucks and playing small limits like $50 NL buy in tables until my composure is stable and i have a plan. Any advice?

Bottom line for me is I play great when Im happy, when im not scared of the day ending with me down or even, but im afraid of losing my cool again once i fix this, i basically need to master the psychology aspect of pro poker before I can really move forward. I know I have gone after a nearly impossible path but I feel confident that I can progress into a steady financial gain. My monthly expenses are only $2000/month and I also DJ at clubs here and there. I guess the advice I seek is just ways to find that type of Zen you need to control yourself from making stupid mistakes when you get bad beats, downswings or cold cards. I know that is my biggest weakness, last week i flopped quads and runner runner QQ made me lose to QQQQ, after that I lost it and took a break, then stupidly went back and lost even more when I should have dropped limits or took the day off.

I know this post is long and kind of all over the place, but I think you experienced guys will know where I am at and be able to offer some advice. THANKS!
Sorry for the LONG post =)

[mosquito]

Things are usually easier to see in retrospect,
but better than not at all.

One of Mason's essays says (in effect) that the
people who do not go on tilt are those who understand
the game, and how variance runs.


Good luck. I struggle sometimes too.

[Al Schoonmaker]

Your problem is extremely common, and there is almost nothing written about it. My "Poker Psychology Essays" contains several articles that should be helpful. Mason will publish it this summer.

You are way ahead of most people. You recognize that you are your own worst enemy, but most people blame others (the poker gods, the other players, the dealers, and so on).

What you must do is to recognize your triggers and emotional reactoins to them faster so that you shorten and tighten the feedback cycle. The idea is to correct your play more quickly so that the swings are smaller.

Regards,

Al

[Mike Cuneo]

I'm nowhere near going pro, but I do plan on trying to make the leap myself and go pro once I get some discipline issues settled (I play too loose). I think one thing you should realize is that poker is one long session. You shouldn't set limits as to how much you win or lose, but you should keep playing as long as the game is good and you are playing your best. However, if say you are losing $1000 and it causes you to play off your game then you should definitly quit. But try not to base your decisions on how much you are up or down for the day. It's all one long session.

[PokerAce]

I know just how you feel. I went pro back in March. Almost immediately, I hit a 270 BB downswing. Then, after winning 200 of it back, I went on another 200 BB downswing. All this in less than a month.

This had a profound impact on me and my game. It made me not want to put the time in. In short, for nearly three months I played half the hands I needed to. I worried too much about my results. If I were up a little bit, I'd quit for the day. If I were down a lot, I'd quit. I based when I quit on my results.

This past week I've put in 15k hands. I'm putting the hands in regardless of my results. I found the best way to do this is to not look at your results. I have no idea how much I've won/loss until the end of the day. That lets me concentrate on how well I'm playing instead of worrying about money.

Try playing for a couple days without checking your results until you've finished for the day. It might help.

[SittingBull]

the end of the YEAR--NOT at the end of the day or wk.
Winning or losing at the end of a DAY is inconsequential.
SittingBull

[SittingBull]

I think ur playing too high a limit for ur bankroll. IMO,in order to have enough elbo room to play within ur comfort zone,u need at least 600bb in a limit game. However,I do not know how much of a roll u need for NL games. But I do know that ONE mistake can destroy ur bankroll.
If ur NOT very comfortable at the limit ur playing,ur playing too high.
To begin as a semi-Pro,u need about 6 months of living expenses or a part-time job that will cover ur nut for 6 months . U should NOT have to withdraw from ur poker bankroll for the first 6 months of ur semi-career. After this period is over,then U can begin to withdraw on a monthly basis from ur bankroll. This,of course,assumes that u are beating the game on a regular basis . "Regular basis" might mean showing a profit every month or every quarter or semi-yearly.Etc.
U should NOT be sweating the "swings" AT ALL. Hence,U should NOT be TILTING.
If u consistently make fewer errors than MOST of ur OPPOs.,U WILL do well. However,Beware that SOME of ur oppositon may be among the TOPS for the given game structure.
SittingBull

[Dj007]

Thanks to all for the replies. I appreciate all the advice and will implement it now. This week hasnt been so good to me, slowly trickling away from hand to hand. Had a few bad beats but nothin to die over (floppin 3 K's called to river by 44 who hits it..)
I researched my hand history and noted i lost a LOT of chips with AK, raisin preflop,. missing and betting a continuation bet only to be reraised or checked down by a small pair. The one time i hit A AND K today i lost to a set lol.
OK so now I know my mindframe is mostly intack now, but im slowly losing away as it seems there just isnt enough time in the day to make the amount i need this month and my girl is naggin everynite at 6pm when she gets home to come downstairs heh. Anyways Im asking for your opinions and advice for my course from tomorrow until next wednesay when I need to come up with $2400 more.
I have $550 in pstars (lost 200 today :/)
I have $275 on Bodog - i just made an account with 150 today and tried it
And i have about 750 in the bank.

I usually play stars 4 tables , 2 1/2 NL, 1 1/2 Limit and a combo of SNG's tourneys or $50 NL.
Or i go to commerce.
I cooled off from this month, i feel confident in my play and my tilt meter, I just need to sit and down and decide which games to play on to get myself back on track and get my expenses sorted out by the 1st.
Any advice would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!
Thanks!

[NDHand]

I find that being underbankrolled is the biggest emotional factor for me. (IE when I just moved up in limit/hit a big downswing). My advice is to drop down in limits as to be seriously "overbankrolled" if you will and to move back up when you've got your mental game back on.

[flair1239]

I think oone thing you could do is get rid of your money limits. Instead of setting money goals, set an hours goal or a number of hands goal. My goal is 500 hands a day or 3500 a week. Instead of thinking in terms of winning or losing as a determining factor in continuing to play, focus on table selection.

I three-table and over a four hour session I may end up at 12-16 different tables. When a table turns bad, I move on... up or down. I have left tables where I have been up 30-40BB before, because the texture of the table changed so much. Conversly I have stayed at tables where I have had to rebuy, because it was still a good situation (Although, I may need work in evaluating these situations).

The last thing, is that over the last 3-months I have become semi-dependent on my income from poker and will be for at least the next 6-months, due to some unexpected expenses. I am grateful that I have the poker option because without it I would have had to borrow money. However it does change the complexion of the game a bit as far as performance pressure. I also find myself putting in hands when I would rather be sleeping...etc.

What helps me is that my girlfriend (we live together as well), has taken an interest in poker. So I have somebody who I can talk to about things. This has gone a long way towrds keeping the game enjoyable for me.

Last thing, don't think in terms of recovering your bankroll. IT is what it is. You have $1500 and you are now a $50NL player. In other words, you are starting over, rebuilding. Nothing wrong with that. remain patient and do what yoou need to do within your bankroll. $1500 and playing $50NL, is much better than $150 playing $10NL on Paradise.