Should poker tracker or similar computer software helpers be allowed?

[bigredlemon]

Are you in favour of aids, or should sites ban their use?

Since everyone is against pokerbots, I think software aids is a valid target as well. Sites that PT doesnt work with and games that aren't supported by PT tend to be much easier afterall. By aids, I'm including things like Calculatem, poker prophecy, etc.

[topspin]

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Sites that PT doesnt work with and games that aren't supported by PT tend to be much easier afterall.

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Yup, that's why I avoid Party and skins at all costs. Those damn multi-tabling PT users are turning the tables there into rock gardens.

[bigredlemon]

clarification: I'm talking about tools like gametime+ and playerview, not using PT to track your own results. I.e. databases should be limited to you vs. aggregation of others, not individuals. As it stands now, a regular player is at a huge disadvantage against players with a large database.

[Siegmund]

If you use them to analyze your game and study hands between sessions, great. If you ask them to statistically confirm your intuition about who is a fish after the fact, great. If you use them during a hand to help you make a decision, I have a problem with that.

Basically, I want the online game to work as much the same way as the face to face game as it can. In B&Ms people observe their opponents, keep records, but very rarely indeed do you see anyone whipping out his notes in the middle of a hand.

In bridge, we have a simple clear policy in the rule book: "A player is not entitled, during the auction and play periods, to any aids to his memory, calculation or technique." Period. Some people who play online will have notes handy and refer to them during hands instead of between hands. No way to enforce it; but anyone who is caught doing it gets warned not to and is told why they shouldn't. The online game hasn't suffered appreciably for it. (We even have bots, clearly labeled as such, at some bridge sites, available for 2 people instead of 4 to have a game, or to be used as emergency fill-ins when someone is disconnected in the middle of a tournament.) You are welcome to study your notes at any time you don't have cards in your hand, including between consecutive deals in a tournament.

Robert's Rules don't have anything as emphatic as the bridge rule. They just say not to say or do anything influencing others' play of a hand in progress, and not to collude. That puts some restrictions on notetaking (not sharing their contents with anyone else, not letting anyone see you write down your own cards while they are still playing, etc) but doesn't bar it.

I would suggest that a rule explicitly barring outside aids during a hand, rather than using the potential-collusion backdoor approach to ban cell phones, would be a good improvement.

Is it enough restricting such programs to display information only about completed deals, and forbid them from calculating odds or giving advice about the current deal? Or should they be restricted farther, to not allowing them to be open at all while logged into a site? I could live with either solution.

[krazyace5]

I dont mind people using them for personal use, I don't like the software sites that pool a large number of players pokertracker stats for use by everyone that pays membership.

[kdog]

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If you use them to analyze your game and study hands between sessions, great. If you ask them to statistically confirm your intuition about who is a fish after the fact, great. If you use them during a hand to help you make a decision, I have a problem with that.


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Well said. If someone chooses to multitable to the point that they can't keep track of who the fish are at the tables, too bad. Live with it or play less games.

[bigredlemon]

Looks like the overwhelming number of voters disagree with all the posters so far.

[Siegmund]

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Looks like the overwhelming number of voters disagree with all the posters so far.

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... just like the honest folks who want a place to see how good their bots are will speak out in support of allowing and labelling bots at selected tables - but the people who would use bots only to fleece fish would rather we keep pretending they don't exist.

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Considering Pacific and Party both work with PT, that leaves only Sportingbet propping up your little theory that no PT = softer.

[garion888]

Sorry but are you gonna go tell all the fish about 2+2 and all the great books that teach people how to win at poker?

I'm sure not. I don't think I'd even utter the names David and Mason while i'm at the tables.