Plan for this hand

[brettbrettr]

The 2 lags had folded and the rest of these guys are the typical trying to play goot types. Tight pre-flop, passive post-flop.

I planned on raising a non-scary turn and if scary turn comes seeing a showdown as cheaply as possible.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero

[toss]

I think your scary turn plan fits the bill.

[S_Perry]

Not me. I've got the K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Most straight completing turn cards give me a gutshot. I'm worried about 4 overcards. I raise the donkbet and hope for a 3-bet to clear the trapped donks.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
Not me. I've got the K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Most straight completing turn cards give me a gutshot. I'm worried about 4 overcards. I raise the donkbet and hope for a 3-bet to clear the trapped donks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hoping for a 3-bet is hoping for a lot with these guys. I *might* be able to fold an ace on the turn by raising this flop and betting. Thing is, if someone has an ace he's already drawing pretty slim. The K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is a good point, but planning on a runner runner straight seems nuts.



What do the rest of you fellers think?

[ThisHo]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
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Not me. I've got the K . Most straight completing turn cards give me a gutshot. I'm worried about 4 overcards. I raise the donkbet and hope for a 3-bet to clear the trapped donks.


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Hoping for a 3-bet is hoping for a lot with these guys. I *might* be able to fold an ace on the turn by raising this flop and betting. Thing is, if someone has an ace he's already drawing pretty slim. The K is a good point, but planning on a runner runner straight seems nuts.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm gonna agree with StevieP on this on. "Dont' Stop Believin'!" You are likely still ahead here but villains have caught some piece or some draw. Raise, hope to get help from SB and see if you can't thin the field a bit. Also, if a scary card does come it likely gives you a draw as well and if the table is passive like you say then you can decide if you want to take a free card when they check it around to you on the turn. Also, the only A that you're really worried about clearing is the Ac. If one of the villains has any of the other A then he's drawing to 3 outs and we're fine with him staying around. But you want to push that Ac out if someone's got it which may be accomplished with a raise if SB will cooperate with a 3-bet.
I think HERO Raises here!

I'll check later to see what Hero did and what the turn looks like...

ThisHo

[meep_42]

I like waiting.

-d

[crunchy1]

I think you need to value-raise the flop. On a draw heavy board players are going to be happy to put their money in the pot. If there's a bunch of callers they're likely hogging each others outs. 1/2 of the deck is going to make you pretty unhappy on the turn but, 1/4 of the deck will still leave you with outs.

I raise.

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you need to value-raise the flop.On a draw heavy board players are going to be happy to put their money in the pot. If there's a bunch of callers they're likely hogging each others outs. 1/2 of the deck is going to make you pretty unhappy on the turn but, 1/4 of the deck will still leave you with outs.

I raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it me, or did you just give a two major reasons to wait for the turn to raise?

In a recent post I belabored the fact that people using the “Wait for the Turn to Raise” was going to far – not getting bets in on the flop in lieu of waiting for that magical safe card. Also it seemed as if many people always assumed there would be a turn bet from somebody – that won’t happen all the time in 3 or 4 handed pots. --- However IMO this is the type of situation where waiting for the turn is far superior than popping now.

Consider –

The pot is 5 handed. – not everyone one of them is on a flush or straight draw. Someone calling along likely has a pair.

So lets say that our Flop bettor was thinking of getting a good value bet on the flop with his two clubs – and it gets called by a barrage of players, some holding pairs, some holding probably less – perhaps another draw or two.

So lets say a brick falls --- Perfect. If our early bettor was on a draw he will likely check. – however out of the other players the person with a pair is going to want to bet to protect what hand he has. Even if our flop bettor was betting the flop with a pair – we are stil in good shape. Now we can pop the turn, and extract a higher price for those drawing still. The point is that there is a much higher chance of popping the turn with this many people in the hand, than say if it was 2, 3, or 4 handed.

If the flush card hits – well that will be action dependent, but we hold the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] so it isn’t necessarily the end of the world.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[TripleH68]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you need to value-raise the flop.On a draw heavy board players are going to be happy to put their money in the pot. If there's a bunch of callers they're likely hogging each others outs. 1/2 of the deck is going to make you pretty unhappy on the turn but, 1/4 of the deck will still leave you with outs.

I raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it me, or did you just give a two major reasons to wait for the turn to raise?

In a recent post I belabored the fact that people using the “Wait for the Turn to Raise” was going to far – not getting bets in on the flop in lieu of waiting for that magical safe card. Also it seemed as if many people always assumed there would be a turn bet from somebody – that won’t happen all the time in 3 or 4 handed pots. --- However IMO this is the type of situation where waiting for the turn is far superior than popping now.

Consider –

The pot is 5 handed. – not everyone one of them is on a flush or straight draw. Someone calling along likely has a pair.

So lets say that our Flop bettor was thinking of getting a good value bet on the flop with his two clubs – and it gets called by a barrage of players, some holding pairs, some holding probably less – perhaps another draw or two.

So lets say a brick falls --- Perfect. If our early bettor was on a draw he will likely check. – however out of the other players the person with a pair is going to want to bet to protect what hand he has. Even if our flop bettor was betting the flop with a pair – we are stil in good shape. Now we can pop the turn, and extract a higher price for those drawing still. The point is that there is a much higher chance of popping the turn with this many people in the hand, than say if it was 2, 3, or 4 handed.

If the flush card hits – well that will be action dependent, but we hold the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] so it isn’t necessarily the end of the world.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

One aspect I did not take into account is what hand players will put you on when you smooth call the flop.
At this level many likely think overcards immediately and will 'forget' you are there on the turn unless an A or K hits.

[bobhalford]

I would raise for a free card, at the least. Then bet the turn if a good card comes.