Continuing to learn while suffering a downswing

[Guruman]

I've got no delusions about the fact that I am only a modestly winning player right now, and I feel like I've been able to make several large strides in my poker playing ability recently.

That said, I've got no doubt that I am in the midst of a pretty solid downswing right now.

Here's my issue - since I'm sure that I am not playing 100% optimally against my opposition anyway (still learning remember?) I'm having trouble determining which parts of my game bad play and which parts are bad luck.

Of course I have to go very long stretches before I can see the flop voluntarily these days, and there are the mandatory instances where I get my money in with the best of it and get drawn out on. That's all cool with me.

The circumstances I'm specifically having issues with are early position on the flop with medium to OK overcards, no part of the board, and several weak/loose players still in the hand. More often then not I end up in check/fold land when someone bets and two people call, or one raises here. While this is the right decision most of the time, I can't help thinking that there has to be a way to take better control of the hand and of my image in these spots without spewing chips all over everyone.

There are several other marginal situations like this that I am still trying to clean up in my game where I'm going to lose money no matter what right now.

When you're unsure about exactly what the right play is during these times, how do you deal with the fact that the cards won't reward you for choosing correctly?

[AaronBrown]

I think your instincts are good. You sense an exploitable opportunity. Of course, you can't consider any one situation in isolation.

Suppose you toss a raise in here some of the time. You might find that you're winning often enough to break even or make money on that raise. Also, you might find that you get more action when you have stronger hands. That will depend on what kind of hands your opponents are betting with and how they react to your raise.

There are two good ideas here (a) when in doubt, take control, don't be passive and (b) experiment both to learn and keep your opponents off-balance. Unfortunately, this isn't a promising situation in which to do it. There are only six cards in the deck that pair one of your two overcards, and even if you do pair, someone else is not unlikely to have paired as well. You're going against people who presumably already have pairs, and they also have chances to improve. Good flush and straight possibilities have more outs than you do, and much better hands if they succeed. Some of them may even have stronger overcards.

Unless the people in your game call raises with absolutely nothing, medium overcards against three or four callers are not an attractive bet.

[LoosenUp]

Guruman i'm curious what game (stakes) you are playing?

[Guruman]

small stakes for now. Mostly 2/4 through 4/8 live games.

I know most of the holes in my game lie in being a little too weak/tight. The problem comes in resolving these issues one by one while immersed in a downswing. I find this situation to be a most difficult learning environment. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[LoosenUp]

I spent my fair share of being a losing low limit player. I have within the last year stepped up from 4-8 to 10-20 successfully and what i'm about to tell you is I believe the #1 leak that most newer or losing players exibit. Your playing to many hands up front. Start throwing away those q10, qj, k10, j10, Kx suited, even AJ and low suited connectors that I know your limping with missing then mucking or hitting top pair and being out kicked. You can bleed away many bets by limping w/ these hands. So this way when you come in in an early position you most always are raising and then you can occassionaly come in and raise w/ those suited connectors to keep from getting to much respect when you do have the premium hands. Its gonna seem like your playing to tight at first but it really is a winning strategy. Hope this helps let me know what you think

[Guruman]

I appreciate the advice Loosen.

While this used to be a pretty good leak for me, I've managed to get this very much under control. I don't play many cards in early position, and an open-raise is pretty standard if I'm coming in early. With lots of limpers I'll still limp late with decent suited connectors in my games - though I don't consider this to be particularly bad play. I think my pre-flop game is pretty much in order.

Again, my concern has been improving my game without spewing.

These situations arise when we get to the flop and I'm trying to either a)get out cheap with a crap hand b)win as much as possible with a good hand or c)fold out opponents if I think I can take down the pot without a showdown. This is where winning players make their money, and while I'm getting much better here - I know that I still have a long way to go.

I'm actually starting to pull out of what has been an aggravatingly long downswing, and my play doesn't feel nearly as tight lately since I'm finally getting cards to get in the hand with. The dilemma remains though: how do you know if you've made a good play post-flop when the cards aren't rewarding you and you have to fold? How do you evaluate the hand when you never saw your opponents cards?

[GreywolfNYC]

[ QUOTE ]
I spent my fair share of being a losing low limit player. I have within the last year stepped up from 4-8 to 10-20 successfully and what i'm about to tell you is I believe the #1 leak that most newer or losing players exibit. Your playing to many hands up front. Start throwing away those q10, qj, k10, j10, Kx suited, even AJ and low suited connectors that I know your limping with missing then mucking or hitting top pair and being out kicked. You can bleed away many bets by limping w/ these hands. So this way when you come in in an early position you most always are raising and then you can occassionaly come in and raise w/ those suited connectors to keep from getting to much respect when you do have the premium hands. Its gonna seem like your playing to tight at first but it really is a winning strategy. Hope this helps let me know what you think

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very solid, very good advice.