30-60 Stud Hand: Find a Fold Here?

[Jeffage]

7 Card Stud High ($30/$60), Ante $5, Bring-In $10 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.67 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (5.00 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (3.50 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises

6th Street - (7.50 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

River - (9.50 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

Total pot: (11.50 BB)


Anyone fold 6th or 7th here? What about the 5th street play?

Comments Appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeff

[bigredlemon]

looks like you're probably up against
1. trips
2. straight
3. two pair
4. full house
I can't see myself calling the river here at all, and would have the mouse over the fold button earlier than that. I think you're drawing completely dead by 6th.

[vintage_sara]

Not sure what happended on 3rd street did he raise after the bring in and you reraised and he reraised then you called?

[greenage]

Jeffage completed immediately after the BI and was then raised by the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

[vintage_sara]

Jeff,

This is a tough hand all the way around. Not knowing the player...tight aggressive, loose aggressive???, it's hard to say, as well as his perception of you.

If he thinks you are raising with fives then he might be reraising you with any pair over your 5 but maybe lower Jack? It's just hard to know where you are at and that's what makes it so difficult. It's short handed too.

I wish you did in fact have the queen of spades in your hand when you raised on 5th. His bet back into you on 6th indicates that he may think you raised with a pair of 5s and a four flush. He also has the kings, the ace and the jack on board.

If you had decided to bluff the flush..which I am asssuming you were doing on 5th, I would have raised on 4th and then bet and/or raised 5th. Then he has a real tough time betting into you on 6th street and the river without improving to two pair or having a set. That is if you have made the decision to stay in the hand.

If you weren't trying to bluff the flush on 5th street and were just raising with your pocket queens to see if they were best, then I like to make sure 6th street comes off clean. In my opinion it didn't. If I don't think he's a solid player, over aggressive or capable of betting one small pair on the river, then I just call him down.

On this hand, I really would have wanted to get a better line on what I really thought he had early. I probably would have raised on 4th and see if he wanted to go to war again, also setting up the "flush" move. If he does go to war with me then I feel comfortable folding on 5th...out of the hand if he bets into me.

But you decided to make your move on 5th street and I assume you did it to see if you could represent a flush. If I thought this guy was good enough to fold and didn't think he had trips or two pair (I do not believe he has a straight), I might just raise him again on 6th and then if he calls, I could fold the river easily to any bet even if I hit trips. I would also check the river, knowing I was beat.

I hope I explained myself well enough. This is an interesting hand.

[Chris Piekarski]

He could have any pair above 5's, including 66-JJ, so I'm not sure why you don't reraise on 3rd. Personally I would probably play it the same way you did, folding if he reraises you on 5th, except I would also fold when he leads out on 6th. That tells me he either has KKK, or a flush draw with a pair of aces to back it up. But I could be wrong. It's also possible that he puts you on a 4-flush and wants to make you pay by betting his overpair, but I don't think it's worth $120 to find out, and if he didn't have the As he should be scared of your 6th in that case.

[Andy B]

I would probably three-bet on third, but the flat call is fine. What are this guy's standards for raising you on third street? If he needs a big pocket pair to raise, you could in big trouble by sixth street. If he'll raise somewhat lighter, and I would think this would be the case in a four-handed $30/60 game, I would usually call it down and not really like it. This is something I seem to do a lot of, though.

[Jeffage]

I figured if I pounded it again on 3rd, it would just encourgage him to go all the way even more against me. So I decided to wait till 5th to raise unless his board developed really bad for me. I figure I'm going all the way with this hand, the queens may very well be ahead, I can represent a flush or at least a 4-flush and a pair with my board, etc. But mainly I want to charge him the max if my queens are good. I probably would have folded if he reraised 5th. The weird part of the hand is his 6th street bet. It was unexpected to me and seemed to indicate I was in a bit of trouble. But the pot was very large so I called. The river is another tough spot. I only beat a smaller pair or busted draw of some kind (for example if he started with a smaller pocket pair). But the pot was big. Results later.

Jeff

[Jeffage]

This is shorthanded and playing aggro. I don't know this guy too well, but I think he would raise with any hand that beats 5's here or even possibly an ace high 3-flush (though this is less likely). I immediately put him on some kind of pocket pair.

Jeff

[Jeffage]

One more question is...what percentage of the time does my opponent's surprise 6th street bet indicate I'm drawing dead or near dead vs. the percentage of the time it's some sort of blocking bet either with one pair that I'm drawing lve against or a pair I'm beating (such as a pocket pair that didn't improve)? He could conceivably have wanted to wait to see if I caught a 4th spade on board to decide what he should do on 6th (ie: since he's calling, he'll bet 6th just in case I was drawing to spades only).

Thanks,
Jeff