Good/bad flop raise? PP 5/10

emonrad87 · #1 06-02-2005, 12:19 AM

Villain in this hand is a little too tight, but a solid player.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB folds.

Final Pot: 5 BB

At first I thought that my flop raise would get him to fold a better hand. But then I realized that there's no way he's gonna fold an ace or KK/QQ/JJ here. So then I thought it would have been better to call down and maybe pop the river if all unders came out or something. But then I figured that the flop raise could be for value vs. something like 99, 88, or K7.

Anyway, what do you think about it?

Roland19 · #2 06-02-2005, 12:23 AM

He's not folding a better hand here ever, it's good that you realized that. This raise is for value and is mandatory. He will call down with a lot of worse hands here, and this way, you're not letting him "draw for free" to any sort of hand. Nicely played.

gaming_mouse · #3 06-02-2005, 12:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But then I figured that the flop raise could be for value vs. something like 99, 88, or K7.

Anyway, what do you think about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

As it's likely effect will be allowing him to make a good fold, I don't see the value in it. If you think his range includes 88, 99, etc, and you know that he will not fold a better hand to a flop raise, the correct play is to let him keep bluffing at you. You can bet the river if checked to, but I wouldn't raise it. This last point is debatable though.

emonrad87 · #4 06-02-2005, 12:50 AM

I should clarify - I think that he would have called me down with 88/99, etc. as I had been more aggressive on that table recently.

gaming_mouse · #5 06-02-2005, 01:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I should clarify - I think that he would have called me down with 88/99, etc. as I had been more aggressive on that table recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meaning that he will call your flop raise, and call you down? Couple thoughts about that:

1. Are you sure?

2. Yes, you will win an extra SB when ahead. But you will lose an extra SB when behind. Without doing the numbers for his possible range, I suspect that this is at best an even, and possibly a -EV proposition for you.

3. If he has a very good hand (like AA or AK), he may well re-raise here or c/r the turn. This won't be an issue if you can trust that he never makes this play with a worse hand, as you will be able to fold on the river UI for the same price as calling down. However, if he is tricky, you will be forced to pay an extra BB to showdown or else risk folding the best hand -- an additional price for your flop raise.

4. Combining 1 & 2 makes me still prefer calling down. And 3 is just gravy.