online play changing home game

[bolgenmod]

Sorry, this will be long!

I've been playing in a very low stakes weekly (sometimes 2x per week) friendly home game for almost 2 years now. We started out playing dealer's choice, but after about 2 months moved to strictly limit Holdem -- .25/.50 (I said low stakes!).

We live in a small college town, and the players are either professors at the college or relatives and close friends. We socialize as well -- have dinner parties and such -- and are a pretty tight knit group.

As you might guess from the fact that I'm here on 2+2, I always took poker more seriously than the others. Not that I was trying to win a fortune (at .25/.50!) or beat my friends into submission, but I read poker books and 2+2 and bought Turbo TH and some other crappy poker games (Masque WSOP, for example). I'm also the only one of our group who has ever played poker at a B&M (sucessfully, I might add, although I don't go to the B&M with the average 2+2 regularity).

And I do play the home game for fun and the social thing, not just to win. But I do like to win. And I've been pretty consistant about winning: I've certainly had losing sessions, but rarely more than 2-3 in a row and rarely lose more than $5. (I kept records for about 8 months, but it seemed like overkill when the big wins or losses were about $15. But when I stopped, I was up almost $200.)

I've made my adjustments over the years: I played too loose at the beginning, then too tight as I learned what I thought was proper strategy. Then I realized that proper strategy for a loose, passive home game in which a hand can easily take 5 minutes to play was to loosen up preflop and then try to outplay postflop. And, of course, I stopped trying to bluff the calling stations and all the rest.

I gave one of the players the Masque WSOP for her birthday, and she shared it with a few others. Most of them loved the game and became obsessed with it (they called it the evil game!). And against the predictable computer play, they learned to be aggressive. No problem -- it made it easier for me to raise preflop with good hands (which previously had been considered a stupid move: "how can you raise when you don't know what you have?"). And after about a year, most of the players also learned not to call every hand preflop ("it's only a quarter!"). The game got better as they became slightly more tight and slightly more aggressive.

But lately about half of the gang has been playing online for play money, mostly at pokerstars.net. And for the last 2 months or so, I've had a really hard time of it. My cards have been average (I haven't seen pocket aces, kings or queens in about 8 sessions!), but in the past with similar cards I always managed to do ok (win or lose a dollar or two). But in the past 2-3 months, I have had only one session where I won more than a few bucks, 2 or 3 in which I broke even, 2 in which I lost the entire buy-in, and the other 4-6 lost 2-5 dollars. (This is a $15 buy-in game.)

It's not that I can't see how their game has changed: they fold more preflop and raise more too. But their raises don't have much to do with hand values or position or number of players: they'll raise UTG with a pair of 4s or reraise 5 players out of the SB with K-10o. They also have a habit of raising with 7-4 and 6-9 because they like to and limping with aces or big slick (which they hate because they lose when they overplay it -- they call it slippery dick, which you have to admit is amusing!), so sometimes it's hard to tell whether they actually have a hand when they raise. And although they wouldn't know Ed Miller if he bit him on the a** (sorry Ed!), they have taken to raising aggressively on the flop with a middle pair (or a pocket underpair), not for any strategic reason, but because they have a pair! Or because they have an inside straight draw that they have a "feeling" about.

Of course, they still lose a lot of chips with play like this. And I still do ok against them. But I find myself more confused by their play -- more so than when I was a clueless beginner.

Last Saturday (a break even night for me), I suddenly realized the correlation between my getting confused about their play and their starting to play online. Since I don't play online, I decided to turn to 2+2 to help me understand what they are doing. They only play the free tables and (amusing to me) talk constantly about the clueless people online who call and raise with nothing.

So I ask you for help -- what could they be learning online that has altered their play from totally loose-passive to loose-aggressive? And second: I've successfully played against maniacs in the casino (where more is at stake -- I play 3-6 there, not riches, but certainly not .25-.50!), but these maniacs have me stymied.

Do I think I know them too well and thus don't respect their raises? I don't think so: I've taken the SSHE advice about not calling raises even if you don't respect the raiser to heart. I've tightened up again on my preflop calls, but I find myself folding hands on the button (no raise) that I would have called in this game 6 months ago, hands that would be worth playing if like 6 months ago, I felt I understood the players and could bet or fold with confidence. I don't think I'm being weak-tight, but I'm no longer sure.

I think my game itself is ok: just last week I played in a charity tournament -- 50 players, shootout, No limit (which I don't play much) -- and won 2nd place. So I think the problem is my game against my home game players, not my game in general. But any insight is appreciated!

[EStreet20]

These people are professors at a college, thus I find it pretty hard to believe that they're playing once or twice a week and never reading poker books or researching poker on the internet. If you do want to beat them go with a SSHE strategy, they're all loose passives or loose aggressives I.E. the type of people SSHE teaches you to play against. Remember, you should be happy about their incorrect plays because that's where you'll make the money (even if it's fifty cents at a time) in the long run.

Good luck,
Matt

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
The game got better as they became slightly more tight and slightly more aggressive.

[/ QUOTE ]


does... not ... compute... *EXPLODES*

[Hedge Henderson]

To sum up, you've been playing for a long time against smart people, you've shared information and tools with them, and they're getting better. You had to expect that.

I doubt play money online had that much to do with it. It merely gave them the opportunity to see what truly bad play was.