Play: Kings to Start

Swash · #1 05-26-2005, 06:59 PM

$3oo buy-in NLHE tourney. $2500 chips.
1st hand out of the box. 25-25 blinds
(K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]). You (hero) are UTG2. You limp, MP2 calls, CO raises 25, both blinds call (pot $175).
Hero raises $200. CO & BB call (pot $775).

Flop is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BB bets out $800. Your action.

nightlyraver · #2 05-26-2005, 07:09 PM

I would push at this point. There really isn't any good reason to give him credit for a set. In fact, with all the preflop action almost anyone would check pocket 8's from the BB. Therefore, I would put the BB on a pocket pair like tens or nines - maybe jacks. I guess he could have aces, but still, with all the preflop action the BB would not bet that much w/ AA - he's betting alot to protect his overpair from a hand like AK. You can't really raise any less as you will be pot stuck if you decide to play.

Swash · #3 05-26-2005, 07:21 PM

I pushed with the Kings. My thinking was that BB had an overpair, or was trying to buy the pot with a flush draw. I also thought he would check a set.

BB calls and shows (8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])

Neither hand improved. I had to hit the road while the tournament coordinator was still on the microphone telling the players where the restrooms were and when the dinner break would be.

A new record for me, but if you can imagine it, it's already happened somewhere.

DireWolf · #4 05-26-2005, 07:22 PM

well played by villan. There is a very good chance you are raising here.

LethalRose · #5 05-26-2005, 07:30 PM

this is why betting into the raiser is better than check raising.

DemonDeac · #6 05-26-2005, 08:33 PM

this prolly wouldnt get the BB to fold pocket 8s but.....

....I don't like limp/reraising unless you know you're at an aggressive table and are pretty sure that a raise will come, and this is your first hand. Open raise the pizzzot.

Pat Southern · #7 05-26-2005, 08:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
well played by villan. There is a very good chance you are raising here.

[/ QUOTE ]

A c/r is much better here than betting out.

DireWolf · #8 05-26-2005, 08:39 PM

why?

Pat Southern · #9 05-26-2005, 09:06 PM

The limp/reraise screams a big hand, so the CO's range of calling a push from the hero is going to be pretty small. The first drawback of betting out is that when the hero raises, the CO might fold hands like 99 and TT Really the only hand the BB would be worried about is the unlikely flush draw, something like AJs. However, he's not even really that worried about being called by a flush draw, he has about 70% equity when up against and overpair and a flush draw. 70%*3 means that he can expect a 210% return on whatever he puts into the pot (2300)=4830 +70% of the current pot (775)*.7=542.5
542.5+4830=5372.5 is his expected return from getting allin with the hero (overpair) and CO flush draw.
If betting out and then being raised by hero eliminates the flush draw, the BB will have about 91% equity. 91%*2 he can expect a 182% return from whatever he puts into the pot: 182%*2300=4186+
91%*775=705.25
4891.25 is his expected return from just getting allin with the hero.

This doesn't even take into account the times the hero may be doing this with AK or something and betting out wins the least out of him.