Immigration hysteria

[natedogg]

Right wing border security fanatics often disguise their racism by supporting tough borders, that much is true. But, you can't have a nation without borders. And our borders are more important now that mad bombers are trying to get in. Yes, I know, "we're fighting the terrorists over there so we don't have to fight them here". Regardless, border security *is* a problem. We should actively enforce our borders ... but NOT to protect Americans from cheap labor.

The minimum wage law, payroll tax, and witholding law should be immediately repealed. These burdens provide the main advantage to illegal immigrants seeking work. By working for money under the table, they can work for as much as 30% less for the *same take home pay!*.

The answer to this problem is *not* to restrict cheap labor. Minimim wages, and the onerous employer requirements kill jobs for the lowest skilled americans. In fact, Americans with slightly better skill sets may be unemployable while illegals who are getting paid less per hour take home MORE at a lower cost to the employer. So the employer can pay more per hour to a lower-skilled illegal worker because his real cost of hiring the more-skilled american worker is too high.

We need to close the borders, for many legimiate reasons, but allow more legal immigrants and eliminate the burdens that hurt the lowest skilled, lowest paid workers so that they can compete on even footing with unskilled immigrant labor.

natedogg

[thatpfunk]

You're making too much sense for this forum nate.

I enjoyed the reading.

[sirio11]

I agree with everything in your post.

David

[tek]

Vincente Fox just said "Natedogg, STFU Huero". [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Seriously, when you're right, you're right. The solution is simply: electrified fences along the Rio Grande.

[Ray Zee]

i would like to see a higher living wage enforced. this way our workers would take all those jobs. then eliminate subsidy for those that dont work unless hardship requires it. they can move and get those jobs just like the immigrants. businesses always complain a higher wage will put them out of business but it doesnt work that way. most times those same people spend it right back. and everyone would be on an equal footing as well.
supply and demand for jobs and pay doesnt work on the lowest levels as those people stuck there do not have the luxury to quit and move on or bargain for higher wages, as they have no savings.
then make it tougher to come into this country. we have enough people, traffic, pollution etc.

[lehighguy]

I'm going to skip the logical flaws in that arguement and go to a real world example.

France just stopped the 35 hour workweek. The arguement when it was enforce was that employers would be forced to higher more workers because the same amount of work had to be done. What actually happened is employers didn't want to hire more workers and pay benefits, training costs, etc. So unemployment was sky high. In fact Europe has instituted many of the policies your talking about and it has resulted in higher unemployment rates, slower GDP growth, and higher government debt. Europe is starting to move more towards the United States on economic issues, why should we repeat thier mistakes.

[ACPlayer]

How dare you think we can't implement a program better than the bloody frogs? [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] They cant even support a holy war against an unarmed dictator! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[lehighguy]

I give you debate, you give me trash. But whatever.

[ACPlayer]

and i demonstrated convincingly that the particular example you chose was based on a bunch of incompetents trying to implement a variant of Zee's ideas.

On point! Your turn.
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[lehighguy]

1) All these government does is done by a bunch of incompetents.

2) The 35 hour workweek has the same effect as raising wages. One is exchangeable for another. What matters is that higher costs DO effect employer behaivor, something Zee apparently doesn't agree with.