I don't know if this is FPS, crappy play or what but I liked it

brazilio · #1 05-22-2005, 06:27 AM

This play turned out really strangely, but I thought my overcards were possibly good, and I did have a backdoor flush draw on the flop along with the fact that the LAG in the middle would pay off virtually any hand I made, and against him I was almost 100% sure my overcards were good. The SLAP having to face the 2 bets on the turn would more than likely fold his overpair if that's actually what he had, and he'd definitely fold his overcards. Anybody else ok with this or am I just a fool? Blinds were both loose, I expected them in and wasn't happy they weren't.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, 3 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (6.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

River: (13.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

UTG+1 is the SLAP, MP1 is the LAG.

Nick Royale · #2 05-22-2005, 06:35 AM

I'm folding preflop every time.

[ QUOTE ]
the LAG in the middle would pay off virtually any hand I made, and against him I was almost 100% sure my overcards were good.

[/ QUOTE ]
It just ain't enough to have the LAG beaten, we have to beat the SLAP too. Getting 11.5:1 the call can't be that bad though.

Moozh · #3 05-22-2005, 06:42 AM

I agree with Nick pre-flop. Don't play the LAG's game and call with a queen-high hand. Often against a LAG, you're looking to go to a showdown unimproved. You can't do that with QJs!

Oh, and bet the river.

EDIT: After looking at it again, with the other pre-flop limper and cold-callers, I don't think it's so bad. Factor in the implied odds of a maniac, and I think you might be able get away with this pre-flop call.

After the call, I think it's fine, except for the river check.

giant sand · #4 05-22-2005, 06:50 AM

I would find it hard to fold QJs from the CO pre-flop - raising's good if you ask me.

I would have played the rest of the hand the same, but probably would have bet on the river

Hoi Polloi · #5 05-22-2005, 06:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm folding preflop every time.

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That seems way tight for Party 2/4. Especially against a known LAG. Maybe I want one more caller in, but lay it down everytime, I don't think so.

Bet the river.

brazilio · #6 05-22-2005, 06:52 AM

So the SLAP folding his possible overpair isn't worth the turn 3-bet?

Nick Royale · #7 05-22-2005, 06:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So the SLAP folding his possible overpair isn't worth the turn 3-bet?

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't comment the turn since I don't know if I can give a good advice. I was talking about when you're drawing on the flop it just ain't enough that our overs are outs against the lag. If SLAP holds AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AQ/AJ we're drawing slim anyway and we don't know the LAG is going to raise the turn giving us an oppurtunity to fold the overpair in the hands of SLAP.

But if you're confident with your read, that the SLAP will fold overpairs to your turn 3-bet, then 3-betting the turn is easy IMO. Generally I don't think we'll manage to fold AA and KK but if that's your read than nice play.

JoshuaD · #8 05-22-2005, 10:34 AM

Why would you 3-bet the turn to check through the river? Value bet that river or don't 3-bet the turn.

Fold preflop.

Nick Royale · #9 05-22-2005, 10:40 AM

If his read is accurate then you don't need to be ahead 50% of the time against the LAG to 3-bet the turn to fold the SLAPs overpair. The pot is 9BB and you invest only 3BB. You need to be ahead 25% of the time to make a profit in 3-betting if you fold a overpair in the hands of SLAP every time. But then you won't be able to value bet the turn.

This is in theory though. I agree you should bet the river.