Marginal push with TP

Rickyroodido · #1 05-20-2005, 02:29 PM

The table was very passiv. Alot of minraising draws was going on, I felt that I had good control of the action postflop.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter

BB ($28.55)
UTG ($22.9)
UTG+1 ($17.65)
MP1 ($22.7)
Hero ($31.7)
MP3 ($13.15)
CO ($32.92)
Button ($18.3)
SB ($31.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, MP3 calls $0.75, CO raises to $1.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50.

Flop: ($4.10) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $2, CO calls $2, Hero calls $30.45 (All-In), MP3 folds, CO calls $28.45.

Turn: ($67) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($67) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $67

After I checked the flop, and the villians put 2$ in the pot I was certain that I was ahead of them. But since they both were on draws, they would probably fold on the turn if they missed. I figured that there was a chance that both were on the flushdraw, which would make me a decent favorite.

Should I have made a raise instead? I figured that would put me in a lose-lose situation: I lose (fold) if the flush comes on the turn and I lose (actually I win but not as much)if the flushdraw doesnt come.
Is the hand to marginal to be worth this? I tend to make aggressive moves, like this, when I believe im ahead. Is it negative EV thinking, considering possibilities of reverse domination and overestimation of pot equity.

PoBoy321 · #2 05-20-2005, 02:31 PM

I really don't like this, and I don't think that this is a marginal push, I think that it's a chip spewing push.

Fold twice pre-flop. Playing KJo first in in MP is just a bad idea and when the CO min-raises you, you can muck again, because at best you're dominated.

Rickyroodido · #3 05-20-2005, 02:42 PM

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I really don't like this, and I don't think that this is a marginal push, I think that it's a chip spewing push.

Fold twice pre-flop. Playing KJo first in in MP is just a bad idea and when the CO min-raises you, you can muck again, because at best you're dominated.

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I believe you are right about folding preflop, but I felt like I could make good plays postflop because the table was very passive.

ScottTheFish · #4 05-20-2005, 03:02 PM

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I felt like I could make good plays postflop

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Apparently you were wrong [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Just kidding, but it's not a good push. You're either playing a huge pot with a crappy top pair hand, or you're pushing out hands that are behind you. Raise enough that a draw doesn't have good odds to call, and go from there.

Nathan183 · #5 05-20-2005, 03:03 PM

I can't imagine getting called here with anything that you beat. It's one of those situations where you will win a small pot or lose a large one.

Your logic regarding the lose/lose situation is completely wrong. If you make a decent raise and they call against the odds, you are winning. Plus, if the flush hits, maybe you will lose, but not nearly as much.

Rickyroodido · #6 05-20-2005, 03:29 PM

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Your logic regarding the lose/lose situation is completely wrong. If you make a decent raise and they call against the odds, you are winning. Plus, if the flush hits, maybe you will lose, but not nearly as much.

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I know you are right about this. However if you are certain that you are ahead and you believe that you actually would get paid of when your a 2:1 favorite, and not as likely would get any additional money when your a 4:1 favorite. Also on the flop I was confident that I was ahead, why would I want to get into a situation were im not confident with my marginal hand... any card on the turn is a scarecard, I just knew that the villians didnt have a good holding on the flop. Very predictable players.

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I can't imagine getting called here with anything that you beat. It's one of those situations where you will win a small pot or lose a large one.
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Untrue, its very common to get called by someone who is hoping to get lucky. The villian who called had QJs btw.