A tale of two poker hands

topspin · #1 05-17-2005, 08:22 PM

Hand 1: Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+2 raises, Hero ...?

Rainbow flop, pretty draw-free. I'd expect top pair to lead, not check-raise and trap the field. What's our action here?

Hand 2: Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (14 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (21 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 25 BB

Should I check this turn, given the huge field and the willingness people have shown to cold-call 3 bets on the flop? How about the river fold into the huge pot?

aK13 · #2 05-17-2005, 08:26 PM

I 3bet the flop in hand 1. The only hand that you're worried about is TT. I think he's getting frisky enough with JJ-KK to make this a very worthwhile raise. If capped, I'd lead the turn, and if raised, then I'd call down.

Hand 2 is just horrible luck.

mmbt0ne · #3 05-17-2005, 08:28 PM

<blockquote>En réponse à:<hr />
Hand 1: Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+2 raises, Hero ...?

Rainbow flop, pretty draw-free. I'd expect top pair to lead, not check-raise and trap the field. What's our action here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I 3bet and call down if capped. I've seen a play like this with JJ-AA as well as TT. Given that he didn't cap, I think we can give plenty of party players TT-QQ in the pocket pairs section. I really doubt he has 66 44 or T4. Simply put, there are more JJ and QQ possibilities here than TT.

Another possible line is to call the raise, and raise the turn, folding to a 3bet. But, I don't know if I would check behind or bet the river if he calls. Some opponents would be tricky enough to call and check-raise but I don't think many would, so I would bet the river, and fold to a check-raise most likely. This line let's us get off a little cheaper assuming we're behind, but some laggy opponents will be able to push us off the best hand.

<blockquote>En réponse à:<hr />
Hand 2: Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (14 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (21 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 25 BB

Should I check this turn, given the huge field and the willingness people have shown to cold-call 3 bets on the flop? How about the river fold into the huge pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't change a thing. I'm calling a river bet if it's not a spade.

Deamon2 · #4 05-17-2005, 08:33 PM

I could give the villain in hand 1 credit for top pair in that situation. There are a lot of players who thing "check raise", not thinking whether it will limit or trap the field. You'll see lots of action against hands you beat here, no reason to slow down yet. I'd three bet and call down if he caps (like everyone else)

ClaytonN · #5 05-17-2005, 08:36 PM

Hand 1: 3-bet the flop. You are way ahead against the range of hands this guy has.

Hand 2: I'm leaning towards bet-folding the turn