Good place for a stop n go?

[1C5]

Or fold this?
Villian has been rather tight.

Bad play by me?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter

MP (t1434)
Button (t2841)
SB (t1475)
Hero (t730)
UTG (t1520)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t600</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t300.

Flop: (t1350) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t130 (All-In)</font>, Button calls t130.

Turn: (t1610) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t1610) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t1610

[pergesu]

It'd be nice if you actually had chips to make him fold. Either push or fold preflop.

[citanul]

honestly i think you're too short to consider it actually a stop and go. however, that's my first blush analysis.

second blush goes like this: you can't fold this preflop, so you are going to put all your chips in anyway, so there's clearly no reason not to do a stop and go. he might get disconnected or something, who knows. maybe he'll even fold on purpose.

so yeah, after the initial reaction of "eh, just get all in preflop" you get a final reaction of "played perfectly, don't consider folding preflop."

citanul

[holeplug]

You don't have enough chips to do a stop n go here so just push or fold preflop

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
It'd be nice if you actually had chips to make him fold. Either push or fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

how about actually putting some reasoning into your post. for instance, your last sentence is completely worthless. i don't believe this is a spot where it's remotely close between push or fold, so if you're going to give the advice of "push or fold" you should offer advice on which to do.

citanul

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't have enough chips to do a stop n go here so just push or fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm having huge contention with this in this post, which is why i'm liking the existence of this post. the only technical thing that you need to have for a stop and go is 1 chip. the opponent simply has to have the option to press the fold button.

ie: what would hero lose by stop and going with too few chips that he would have had by being all in preflop?

citanul

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It'd be nice if you actually had chips to make him fold. Either push or fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

how about actually putting some reasoning into your post. for instance, your last sentence is completely worthless. i don't believe this is a spot where it's remotely close between push or fold, so if you're going to give the advice of "push or fold" you should offer advice on which to do.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

I said if he had chips to make the guy lay down, he could consider a stop and go. But since he doesn't, he has to consider a different play.

Whether that play is pushing or folding is up to him. He said the guy is tight. Tight enough to for hero to fold here? Maybe, I don't know.

I answered the original question as I saw it, and provided the reasoning behind my answer.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It'd be nice if you actually had chips to make him fold. Either push or fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

how about actually putting some reasoning into your post. for instance, your last sentence is completely worthless. i don't believe this is a spot where it's remotely close between push or fold, so if you're going to give the advice of "push or fold" you should offer advice on which to do.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

I said if he had chips to make the guy lay down, he could consider a stop and go. But since he doesn't, he has to consider a different play.

Whether that play is pushing or folding is up to him. He said the guy is tight. Tight enough to for hero to fold here? Maybe, I don't know.

I answered the original question as I saw it, and provided the reasoning behind my answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

personally i don't think that there is any way at all that hero can fold here. i think that your posts (both of them) are entirely without reasoning, which is well, what too much of this forum is. the response of "you should push or fold preflop" is even worse than just forumbot's response of "push preflop."

see, if the question was "up to him" he wouldn't have posted it on a board asking for opinions on the hand. your original post had absolutely no qualifier of "i don't know how tight he has been blah blah blah" but well, i'm pretty sure you couldn't make up any sane kind of range of hands for the guy to have that you could say that the hero should fold preflop to.

as i said in my op, since hero can't fold this hand at all, i think that considering the stop and go, EVEN THOUGH HE HAS TOO FEW CHIPS TO MAKE A SANE PLAYER FOLD, is wise as an alternative to just going all in preflop, as it has no downside.

citanul

[curtains]

Folding preflop is completely ridiculous. The best play is to call and push on the flop, but it's usually irrelevant. Pushing preflop gains zero as your opponent will call 100% of the time. Calling preflop and pushing the flop gains almost zero, as your opponent will almost always call. However there is that rare breed of opponent who will fold a weak hand on the flop, thus denying themselves a possible 20-25% chance to beat you. It is very very very rare, but a very small chance is better than no chance at all.

[Eric Draven]

No... Like everyone has said, no idiot is going to lay down a hand for another 130, I would go all-in before the flop - if not then fold, stop n go is terrible here.