So standard it's boring?

PokerBob · #1 05-13-2005, 05:29 PM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP calls.

Flop: (5.40 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets, Hero raises, MP calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.70 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.70 BB

steaknshake925 · #2 05-13-2005, 05:32 PM

i think its ok to fold the flop too.

Surfbullet · #3 05-13-2005, 05:46 PM

I think peeling one off and folding the turn, or just folding the flop, are both fine.

I don't like raising for a free card here, because you'll often get 3bet by draws, or draws+pairs, and then you'll have to fold the turn having paid 3x as much to get there. If it was a rainbow flop(less likely to get reraised) and we had a backdoor flush draw(more ways to improve) then i'd like it much better.

Surf

bobbyi · #4 05-13-2005, 05:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like raising for a free card here

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think he was raising for a free card. I think he was raising to charge his opponent if he was drawing. But then the diamonds got there on the turn. I assume (hope) that if the turn duck was offsuit, he was betting again.

bobbyi · #5 05-13-2005, 06:00 PM

I can't see investing two sb's in a six sb pot when you have no diamond and just tainted overcards and the small hope of a miracle runner-runner straight. If you know the opponent well and he is only likely to bet here with a draw, then obviously you are continuing, but against an unknown in a low limit game, you could just give this up.

Surfbullet · #6 05-13-2005, 06:05 PM

I don't like raising to "chage draws" with K-high. It's not a hand i'm racing to showdown with, and even the weakest draw he could conceivably bet here (79o) has 14 outs to beat hero.

When villain is not on a draw, hero needs that free card to improve if he's going to be raising the flop, because the pot isn't big enough to invest 2 small bets otherwise.

Surf

bobbyi · #7 05-13-2005, 06:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like raising to "chage draws" with K-high. It's not a hand i'm racing to showdown with, and even the weakest draw he could conceivably bet here (79o) has 14 outs to beat hero.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with you. I was just explaining what I think the logic was. It wasn't really a free card raise because hero would bet a blank turn. I would not have raised this flop.

Another problem is that one of the draws is the straight draw and if that is what the villain had, hero let himself get bluffed out of the pot anyway, so his flop raise just gave money to the opponent.

Surfbullet · #8 05-13-2005, 06:18 PM

Exactly.

It sounded like we were on opposite sides here until I read your second post. I didn't agree with betting a blank turn because I didn't think we were ahead enough given our opponent's ranges and the likelihood of a draw still pairing and beating us. Given that, I thought the flop raise was for a free card, which I didn't like.

But, basically, you're saying that you don't like the line either, for the same reasons. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Way to read, me!

Surf

PokerBob · #9 05-13-2005, 06:22 PM

I did raise for a free card. Apparently that is an error in such a small pot.

gamblore99 · #10 05-13-2005, 09:24 PM

To Surfbullet and Bobbi,
Same flop but rainbow. Do you guys still fold flop or call/fold the turn unimproved?