A Turn Question

Chris Daddy Cool · #1 05-01-2005, 09:58 AM

i dont have any reads on any player but this is a fantasticly loose table

party poker .50/1.00

i limp utg with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. C1, C2, C3, C4 call. sb completes. bb checks. 7 to the flop for 7 small ones.

flop: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

sb bets. bb folds. i raise. c1 folds. c2 folds. c3 calls. c4 3-bets. sb caps. i call. c3 calls. c4 calls. 4 to the turn for 11.5 big ones.

turn: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB bets. What should I do?

FlopMe · #2 05-01-2005, 10:05 AM

I would fold preflop.

@bsolute_luck · #3 05-01-2005, 10:07 AM

i'm folding. c4 likes his hand and SB capped the flop...straight/set? the only outs i see are the 8s and i'll give 1/2 an out for the 2 remaining kings incase our set is goot.

but you did say it is a "fantastically loose" table and the pot is huge, so maybe call 1 bet and fold if 2 back to you??

@bsolute_luck · #4 05-01-2005, 10:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
fantasticly loose table

[/ QUOTE ] i'll play it.

toss · #5 05-01-2005, 10:11 AM

I'd raise here. Pots getting big, c4 might be getting frisky with a hand like 78, and theres a fair amount of cards that can come and beat you should you have the best hand.

toss · #6 05-01-2005, 10:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I would fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

FlopMe · #7 05-01-2005, 10:14 AM

Maybe I'm too tight but I wouldn't think twice about mucking K9 soooted UTG regardless of table conditions.

Chris Daddy Cool · #8 05-01-2005, 10:25 AM

how about... KTs?

FlopMe · #9 05-01-2005, 10:30 AM

Yes, I KTs UTG. I also play JTs and QTs at a loose table like you've described.

itsmesteve · #10 05-01-2005, 11:21 AM

since sb has just completed then led out and capped, i'm gonna guess he either flopped a set or straight. if its a set, you have 4 8s as outs. If its a straight, an 8 may beat him or at least split for you. c3 just keeps calling, so i'll guess he has some draw or won't throw away somehting like A6 or A7 or an overpair (8s 9s TT, something a typical player wouldn't raise). C4 3 bet, which could very well mean a straight, junk 2 pair, or also a set, again giving you the same outs. Its doubtful there's a flush draw out there, but not impossible. 2 Kings are probably worth much less than 1 out, perhaps even nothing since i think a set is a possiblility from one of the two aggressors. I think the 8s are relatively clean (hopefully a T9 hand is gone by now) maybe around 3ish outs. Your nine outs are probably dirty, if they are even outs (i doubt this is 2 weak 2 pair hands.)

Getting 12:1 and having around 3+ outs, a fold doesn't seem correct in a pot this big. A raise here may just turn into spewing if its 3bet and maybe capped behind you. It'll come back with you getting something like 10:1 and if C3 calls it'd be more like 11:1. A fold there would again be tough, but you'd certainly prefer to see the last card as cheaply as possible. A call may put you in the same situation, where its raised and 3 bet behind you and you have to call 2 cold but are getting somewhat tempting odds to continue.

I think I'd just call and hope for the best. I think raising won't clean up any out for me, though it MAY clear out some players. If they fold, however, I don't think it helps your chances of taking down the pot and only decreases the potential payday on the river. I believe you need an eight on the river to win, and in a pot this big want to see if it comes. I'm calling and hoping i see the river cheap. If C3 folds, C4 raises and SB 3bets, then a fold getting 17:2 may be OK, especially since it could still be capped behind you. The play seems kind of weak, but i think the risk/reward is good enough to try it. Hopefully I'm not seriously overvaluing my opponenets holdings here.