2-7 TDL big pot, lots of decisions

[DeathDonkey]

Ok, this hand I thought was completely crazy and I had a lot of tough decisions throughout. Player B was awful, would draw to and stand pat with really rough nasty hands multiway and never fold after that. If he made a 9 it was going to showdown. Player C is good from what I know, pretty tight, hasn't been out of line.

Thoughts on my coldcalls predraw and on the first draw? What about my lead / 3 bet on the second draw? I really wanted to keep B in there. Finally, should I pay off on the last draw when C raises again?

Thanks,
DeathDonkey


DeathDonkey posts the small blind of $.50.
D posts the big blind of $1.

B: -- -- -- -- --
C: -- -- -- -- --
DeathDonkey: Td 2c 3d 6c 3h
D: -- -- -- -- --
A: -- -- -- -- --

First Round:

A calls. B calls. C raises to $2. DeathDonkey calls. D folds.
A calls. B calls.

DeathDonkey takes 2 cards. A takes 2 cards.
B takes 2 cards. C takes 2 cards.


Second Round:

B: -- -- -- -- --
C: -- -- -- -- --
DeathDonkey: 2c 3d 6c 8c 8h
A: -- -- -- -- --

DeathDonkey checks. A checks. B bets
$1. C raises to $2. DeathDonkey calls.
A folds. B calls.

DeathDonkey takes 1 card. B stands pat.
C stands pat.

B: -- -- -- -- --
C: -- -- -- -- --
DeathDonkey: 2c 3d 6c 8h 4d

Third Round:

DeathDonkey bets $2. B calls. C
raises to $4. DeathDonkey re-raises to $6. B
calls. C calls.

DeathDonkey stands pat. B stands pat.
C takes 1 card.

B: -- -- -- -- --
C: -- -- -- -- --
DeathDonkey: 2c 3d 6c 8h 4d

Final Round:

DeathDonkey bets $2. B calls. C
raises to $4. DeathDonkey calls. B calls.

[Luv2DriveTT]

Pre-flop -excelent. EXACTLY what you should do in that situation.

Interesting to see what happened to C here, looks like B knows his hand isn't going to last but isn't smart enough to fix it. C broke his 9, and obviously made a 7 (or is a complete maniac, one or the other). If they are both loose players I call down from here. The 8 is good, but there are a few better hands, against 2 players pat I am not 100% secure my near perfect 8 is good enough. If they are both tight, thinking players then I raise with a big smile on my face.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[randomstumbl]

This is my first post here. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to comment on a hand I played in (I'm 95% sure I'm player C here).

I'm not a fan of you cold calling in the blind because you're letting A & B draw with likely inferior hands for cheap. Yeah, they're both loose passive players, but you calling just makes their decisions less incorrect. You're drawing two and at best you're going to make the second nut hand. Most of the time you're going to be rougher than that. Why do you want to try to beat 4 players? I'd reraise. Either you get more money in while you're ahead of most of the field or you narrow the field and put some dead money in the pot. Is my thinking incorrect here?

On the second round, I'm looking at raising or calling. I'm leaning towards calling since C obviously has at worst a one card draw and possibly a pat hand and you're out of position. The reason I might raise is that B is a terrible player who's basically just putting dead money in on most hands.

The third round is really where this hand gets interesting. I think it's pretty easy to discount B's hand, he's likely drawing dead here. I can't remember exactly what I had here, but it was either 86532 or 86542. I figured B for some type of 9 hand, probably one that is unbreakable. Donkey's hand is tougher. My read was that he wouldn't three bet with an 87 or worse. If he has an 86 it's almost certainly better than mine. If he has a 7, I'm in terrible shape and if he has an 86 I'm hurting pretty bad too. I really didn't think he'd be calling on the second round with a one card draw to a seven though. So, my raise was to find out if my 86 was good or not. When I found out it wasn't, I called one more hoping to find a 7. Especially since I figured their where at least 3 unaccounted for.

On the final round I caught a seven. Once Donkey bet, I had to think about if I should raise or not. I really didn't think he had a seven though. And I figured he'd bet a good 8 to get a call from B. So, I figured I'd raise and call if he popped it up again. Ha, after writing this out it sounds really LAG. Anyone see any glaring problems with my thinking?

[dibbs]

236 and similiar hands with a 6 are the only hands I won't raise or 3-bet with, I like. Am I too tight if I even muck a hand like this to a raise preflop from a good player? I do on occasion.

I think I lead after the first draw, expecting to be smooth called most of the time by both players, I doubt B will leave if you are worried about keeping him in. Did you feel like one of them was going to bet? Am I wrong to lead in a spot like this?

Third round I play the same, funny how C freaked out and figured he'd have to break to take it down.

I'd check-call on the river, while I often bet a #6 here it just seems way too likely you are going to have to face two bets and C was probably drawing to a 7. For the times C misses, seems like B would auto-bet if checked too so you get that at least. This river action sucks, but pot's too big to fold.

JMO, tough hand.

[DeathDonkey]

You played this hand really well. I didn't want to isolate against you since I was pretty sure you started better than me. You were playing really tight from what I could see, tighter than I play for sure. Player B was also not folding no matter if I somehow double raised you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I agree with your analysis of my coldcall after the first draw. I wonder if I should have bet out but I was worried someone was already pat and if it got checked around I wouldn't have been all that sad.

3rd round: You did have 86532 and made a nice break. Alot of players would have called me down there standing pat. I got exactly what I wanted trapping Player B in the middle, I really liked my third round play.

On the end I had to bet (as another poster asked about) because Player B would call but probably not bet with all that previous action. When you raised again I was 99% sure you hit your 7, but then I thought and convinced myself there was some chance you had an 8 or possibly a 9 and were trying to blow me off my hand to beat Player B. I really should have mucked it I think. By the way, if I 3 bet the river there, you can safely muck your 76 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
236 and similar hands with a 6 are the only hands I won't raise or 3-bet with, I like. Am I too tight if I even muck a hand like this to a raise preflop from a good player? I do on occasion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not too tight at all. I won't call 3 bets with a 2 draw 2-6, and I will now muck this troublesome hand if I am second to act in a raised pot.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
The third round is really where this hand gets interesting. I think it's pretty easy to discount B's hand, he's likely drawing dead here. I can't remember exactly what I had here, but it was either 86532 or 86542. I figured B for some type of 9 hand, probably one that is unbreakable. Donkey's hand is tougher. My read was that he wouldn't three bet with an 87 or worse. If he has an 86 it's almost certainly better than mine. If he has a 7, I'm in terrible shape and if he has an 86 I'm hurting pretty bad too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bad break in my humble opinion. I carefully call down an 86, I will never break an 85 on the 3rd draw. You got VERY lucky!

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[DeathDonkey]

Since I had him beat, it was an excellent break. If you mean in general, you shouldn't break 86's against a 3 bettor like that, then I still don't necessarily agree. It would be very hard for me to break an 85, he would pretty much have to show me his 7 low.

-DeathDonkey

[randomstumbl]

I don't think this was a break I'd always make. I'm not breaking 865 very often, but what hand is good here. Is Donkey raising two pat hands with an 87? If not, with 865, what hands do you beat? So, the only difference between breaking and not breaking is that occasionally we'll have the same hand. Am I way off here? Is he going to be raising something worse than 865 into one tight and one loose player who he knows are pat? Obviously, if this is a situation where he could be trying to get me to break a 9, I can't break, but he has to figure between the two players someone has a nine beat.

[randomstumbl]

I forgot how tight I was playing in this game. I was basically on autopilot waiting for big hands and getting them paid off. That's what's nice about .5/1 and 1/2. You don't have to mix up your play at all or change gears. In that situation, I like your cold call on the first round more. I think reraising with 8x2 is probably a leak in my game.

I think you lose a lot if it does check around on the second round. You're giving free cards and missing an opportunity to get money in while you're ahead.

Other than that, I think you played your hand perfectly. Oddly enough, I wouldn't have broke if you hadn't 3 bet in the third round, but I still don't think it's a mistake.

On the end, you pretty much either have to call me now or make some loose calls later because you're just inviting bluffs by folding in that situation. That's the logic I used to raise you and call if you popped it again, but it applies to both of us.