standard JJ play?

irishpint · #1 05-02-2005, 07:05 PM

want to make a poll: fold pocket pairs to overcards? cap this preflop?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.5.
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 4 folds, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB calls.

River: (10 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

A_C_Slater · #2 05-02-2005, 07:09 PM

Capping with JJ is player dependent. Against an unknown or donk I would cap. I play it the same except I fold the river. There's no way he's employing the stop n go into 2 opponents one being an aggressive bettor without at least a King. He probably slowplayed KK, huh? I just don't think your JJ is good here 1/8 of the time.

Rev. Good Will · #3 05-02-2005, 07:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Capping with JJ is player dependent. Against an unknown or donk I would cap. I play it the same except I fold the river. There's no way he's employing the stop n go into 2 opponents one being an aggressive bettor without at least a King. He probably slowplayed KK, huh? I just don't think your JJ is good here 1/8 of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

He only needs to be good 1/10 of the time, which I think is a marginal call, but that combined with the fact your letting the table know you're capable of folding to one single river bet, I lean more towards calling.

EDIT - For PF, in most cases I'm capping, unless we're facing a rock.

mvoss · #4 05-02-2005, 07:16 PM

(In the dark)

I like the way you played it.

I would consider capping this PF to get rid of MP1 though. I don't know if this is a correct way of thinking of it, but I would like to be heads up with the pocket J's.

A_C_Slater · #5 05-02-2005, 07:17 PM

Oops. I mistakenly read the BB at river as being the final pot and I subtracted 2. But even at 1/11 it's probably not good.

USDaniels · #6 05-02-2005, 08:11 PM

Funny you should bring up JJ, I've been thinking about this hand all day:

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero caps, MP2 calls, CO calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (20.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (12.20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, CO calls, UTG folds.

River: (14.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO folds.

Final Pot: 15.20 BB

I almost never cap pf. While I've never thought it out until now (I don't play many hands, so it doesn't come up often) I think my real time reasoning says that if I have AA or KK then I don't want you to know it, so I'll raise to build the pot, but not cap to try to hide the premium holding and if it's less than premium, then I don't want to give more to the AA that three bet or whatever. Anyway, this was the first high pair I'd seen in a while so I pumped it and pumped it. I got a good flop and it worked. Capping preflop and betting every street must have looked like AA. I doubt I'll play it like this every time (at nickel/dime it's hard to get that many pf callers to fold), but it worked out here. Now I'll go read the other posts and see what everyone else said about capping.

Chex · #7 05-03-2005, 02:14 AM

JJ's PF (Against random hands though) is 77.5% heads up to win and 61.2% against two opponents. With a profit rate needing to be at 50% and 33.3% to break even. You would rather have it be against 2 opponents rather than trying to isolate to get one. More money in the long run.

Malachii · #8 05-03-2005, 02:42 AM

This is most likely QQ, but possibly TT. I'd call... and I might even raise the river to try and push him off QQ. Plus you might get rid of the guy who's tagging along. I believe the relevant section of the bible is called "When you do not want overcalls."