1-Table Tournie vs NLHE vs Limit - Help Please!

[Lisa99]

Hope you guys can help out a relative newbie. I've been playing for about eight months at the small limits. When I play one table tournaments ($50 buy-in or less) I consistently finish 1st or 2nd, when I play NLHE ($1/2), I can hold my own (still not making much money, but not losing either), but when I play limit (mostly $2/4 or $3/6), I bleed cash....I have a whole library of books that I've read and I average about 20 hours per week playing but I am frustrated with this phenomenon beyond belief. Is there anything that I can read, or advice you can give, to figure out what in heck is going on with my game that will help me get past this block?

Thanks for you help!
Lisa

[stlip]

Get pokertracker if you are not using it. Find out why you are only holding your own in 1/2 (too tight, too loose, not aggressive enough post flop?) and then you'll see what part of your game you need to work on to handle the 2/4.

Also, lots of successful 2/4 players say that a stop in 1/2 6 max was essential for them to get ready for the increased aggression and frequency of contesting pots heads up where the ability to read a player and the situation was essential.

[Lisa99]

Thank you for the suggestion! I bought PokerTracker last week and have been using it to record all of my hands, but hadn't had the time yet to do any analysis.

Analysis of a little over 1800 hands indicates that in Limit, I'm bleeding from the blinds. I seem to have a solid game from every other position, but am not playing the blinds correctly.

Thanks again
Lisa

[SheridanCat]

It sounds as if you have leaks in your limit game. The advice to get PokerTracker and use it is a good one. Also, you should post some hands in the low limit or micro forums so they can help you spot the problems.

If you want to try posting an example hand or two here, you can, but usually those types of posts will be more and better responses in the appropriate forum.

We might be able to give you some insights also if you can give some idea of what you think is wrong with your limit game.

Regards,

T

[stlip]

Until you have well over 10k hands about the only poker tracker stats that are worth looking at are VP$IP and pre-flop raising.

I think the consensus is that for 2/4 you want VIP about 18 and PFR 10. Your VIP from SB can be about double your normal percentage. (I play mostly 1/2 and am 22 VIP, 44 from SB, which is a bit high by 2+2 standards but works for me.)

Other key things you should know: Search through the posts for threads about the right way to play small pocket pairs; learn how incredibly tight you need to be about coming into a raised pot if there aren't other players who have already called the raise or are likely to; and use check raises a lot.

Good luck.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there anything that I can read, or advice you can give, to figure out what in heck is going on with my game that will help me get past this block?

Thanks for you help!
Lisa

[/ QUOTE ]

Limit HE, NL cash games, and NL tournaments are 3 entirely different games. One potential problem is that you are basically playing them all pretty much the same way, but it would take a lot more info to know that. This can be compounded by your natural playing style, which is probably more suited to one game than another.

There have been a number of threads on these forums recently discussing limit vs NL, cash vs tournaments. Find those and read them, and look for articles on the subject at sites like CardPlayer. Mason has some essays on the topic in his collections. Then start paying more attention to how you play, and see if you are playing all games the same.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
When I play one table tournaments ($50 buy-in or less) I consistently finish 1st or 2nd,

[/ QUOTE ]
No one does that.

There are many expert SNG players who post in the one table tournament forum, including quite a few professional SNG players. I don't believe any of them claim to place in the top 3 50% of the time in $50 SNGs. Cashing over 40% of the time is good. If you "consistently" place 1st or 2nd, it means you haven't played much and you have been lucky.

[ QUOTE ]

when I play NLHE ($1/2), I can hold my own (still not making much money, but not losing either),


[/ QUOTE ]
As far as I know, there aren't any really tough NL games with $1 blinds online. If you are a solid NL player, you should be winning consistently. When I play NL, I occasionally have losing days, but I haven't come close to having a losing week.

One difference between tournaments and NL ring games is that the stacks are usually much deeper in the ring games. If you are accumulating chips in SNGs, but losing in ring games, it could be that you would do better to buy in short. That will make it unprofitable to play speculative hands against you, and it will prevent you from having as many tough decisions on the river.

[ QUOTE ]

but when I play limit (mostly $2/4 or $3/6), I bleed cash...


[/ QUOTE ]
Limit is very different. One problem with figuring out what works is that the variance is high. You can play badly, and win 100 BB in a session. You can play well and have a couple of losing weeks in a row.

I suspect that your sample size is too small to draw any conclusions, but you should read the micro-limit and small-stakes forums here. Whether you agree with their advice or not, try to follow the thoughts of the experienced winning players there.

[Niediam]

Don't forget that no matter what you will always be losing money from both blinds.

[Lisa99]

You're right that I haven't played much since I've only been playing eight months and I'm quite sure I've been very lucky, but I do consistenly finish high in a SNG. I am very patient, play very few hands and wait for most of the players to knock themselves out before I get more aggressive. Having said that I rarely finish first since I'm short-stacked, but I consistently finish in the money (I play SNGs on Victory...small site, but a LOT of bad players at SNG)

And in NL in the $1/2 I've also been lucky to win since I'm new. What I'm working to determine is why my game results are so different.

I haven't seen many books dedicated to NL, so will need to find some to determine the differences in play.

Thanks again for everyone's help

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't seen many books dedicated to NL, so will need to find some to determine the differences in play.


[/ QUOTE ]

Some suggested reading:

Ed Miller's Getting Started In Hold'em
Dan Harrington's Harrington On Hold'em...
Bob Ciaffone/Stewart Reuben's Pot Limit and No Limit Poker

Good luck,

T