Internet vs Real Life

[arod15]

I have done a statistical anaylsis of my yearly play. I have noticed that in Live games and tourneys I am up a few thousand. On the other hand, i am down quite a bit in internet poker. So the question is, what am i doing that so different to swing my hourly rate so bad in the negative on the web, when i have been crushing the live games?

[fnord_too]

Sample sizes?

Tournies are very high variance, I doubt you will be able to draw any significant conclusions from a years play unless you are playing a whole lot of tournaments, and if you are playing live, I doubt that is the case.

First step: Seperate tournies from ring games.
Second step: Identify numbers (how many tournies, what buy ins, what type of ring games, what level, how many hours or hands, results).

If up a few grand is crushing the ring games, then you are either playing very low limits or not enough to have significant data. (That is, us 2K in a 10/20 game over 100 hours live (1BB/hour) is not a large amount of data. Up 2K in a 1/2 holdem game with it's outrageos rake and tips ober 1000 hours is much more significant, though if this is the case you really should be moving up in limits unless you play purely for fun).

Here are some possible explanations:
Sample size (as already suggested).
Toughness of the game (internet ring games are considerably tougher than their equivalent live level. You cannot compare results from live 2/4 with internet 2/4)
Psychological reasons. Some people play better live for many reasons: The physical chips are a step closer to real money, you have real people watching you, etc.


Forgive my cynical nature, but I am dubious about the veracity of your statistical analysis. At any rate, this question is better suited for the Poker Theory forum I believe, and you definitely should include numbers in your posts. People around here are used to seeing things like "I am .4BB/100 loser in party's 2/4 game over 40,000 hands, but only a 1.5BB/hour winner at live 2/4 play over 800 hours of play last year." If you can't provide numbers like this, then you are keeping inadequate records for serious analysis.

[Lurshy]

uhh, you tell us. We haven't seen you play and no nothing of what you do.

Some generic comments though: Live ring games play a bit looser than internet counter-parts so if you can beat 5-10 Live, you may beat 1-2 or 2-4 internet but get destroyed at 5-10 internet which can be more like a live 20-40 game. This may also vary somewhat room to room, but the idea is generally valid.

[arod15]

Well,
My analysis is pretty good. I actually am an accountant and am real good at setting up numbers. And when i say im up i am up 4,350 at the low limit level. 1-2 NL both cash and tourneys over 1200 hours of play. While online i am down about 2,500 over about 600 hours of play. A horrible swing. What i see as the major difference is my ability to read hands. In NL this is my biggest asset. I have call peoples hand blind many times. Where online, there still are tells but not nearly the same amount. I also think im looser online since its only a click. Overall, i am up but not significantly. I actually am working a lot on my live games. I live in NYC and have various back door poker rooms. My thing is i would like to improve on the web poker since there is less cost involved and i can play multi-tables. Any advice?

[fnord_too]

For online, buy poker tracker.

If you are interested in NL, then I would say that party has the nicest progression of levels right now. I would start reading and posting to the the small stakes pot limit & no limit forum.

Poker tracker will let you track your own play (as well as your opponents) very effectively. You will be able to dig a lot deeper into your results. (For instance, you will be able to see how you do from each position, how each hand has ben faring for you, etc. Very useful tool).

For either, I think on line is the way to go until you get to the higher limits (unless you like the social aspects of the game). There is just no substitute for getting in hands (my oppinion on this has changed dramatically since I started playing poker seiously!) Also, like you noted, the cost is much lower and that has a huge impact.

There are a lot of good books you may or may not already have. I think I have about 50 poker books in my library, and have read them all at least once, but I have learned far more participating on these forums than from all the books. (Don't get me wrong, a lot of them are outstanding and very useful, but active discussion is way better IMO).

Welcome to the forum. (It is dangerous to point out you are an accountant this close to the 15th, you may be inundated with questions [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. )

[transmitt]

I probably agree most w/ fnord's psychology comment and include general concentration in that. I can notice a difference live v. online in just my concentration level alone. The dog barks, phone rings, internet surfing and other random distractors typically aren't there.

[arod15]

Meant to say 120 hours of play just saw that. I was making about 35 an hour.

[Gamblor]

I won't tell you internet poker is rigged.

But another possibility is this:

on the internet, im much looser than live.

internet poker is the same as its been for two years and i got bored of it and id start bluffing at more ridiculous spots, spots i'd never have been involved in online, where i think everyone sucks and i can outplay everyone.

live poker there's more action in the casino, there's more things going on so you don't get as bored, and you just play your hands as they should be played.

so i smartened up and im back on the road to recovery.

[arod15]

I dont know what it is but the situation continues. I have won in the last two weeks a little over 2000K. In about 12 hours of play. However, only 200 of that was internet. I cant figure out what is wrong. Im assuming its what you say, i get lose. Im not sure. Either way, with all the actgion found in NYC i decieded to stick to the poker rooms for a while. While there is more cost involved such as tipping the dealer, id rahter be giving a percentage of my winnings . cause that will mean i won.

[Percula]

First off if you are truely intrested in finding out what is going on, you need to start looking at your play in common terms.

Number of hours played is not a common "term". In live play you are going to play somewhere between 20 and 35 hands per hour. Online you are going to play somwhere between 40-60 hands per hour. That is why win/loss rates are expressed in terms of BB/100hands, not BB/hour.

Personally I am in the same boat as you (I am definately not as good online as I am live). Since it is really not practical to gather poker tracker style information from live play, I consintrate much more on the metagame aspects of my live play than the advanced stats that you would get with poker tracker. Instead I let my online play show me thru poker tracker these aspects.

I think for me at least and maybe you too, the major differences are...

1) I am MUCH better at exploiting available information live.

2) You will become "known" to the regular players you play with live, you can use this advantage, i.e. they really do not know as much as they think they know versus someone that has tracked you for 1000s of hands online.

3) The varying quality of palyers is also much higher live than online. Online you do not often see someone playing way over their head (+EV for you), or not nearly as much as you do live anyway. You will also see a lot more live high limit players donk around at lower limits (possible +EV for you if they are truely donking around).

4) Live MTT play differently than online. For one thing you tend move less giving you time to build reads and set a image yourself. Stack awareness of the average live MTT player is poor, e.g. playing differently when someone has several large stacks of green (looks like a lot but isnt), versus they way they play with someone with a small stack of yellow (looks like a small amount but isnt).