Too aggressive?

Kyriefurro · #1 04-20-2005, 07:17 PM

This is literally the first hand I've ever played with villain...so not much of a read

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
8 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

River: (9 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

When he didn't come after me on the flop, I put him on a big non-jack PP...and played accordingly. Should I have slowed down on the turn?

shadow29 · #2 04-20-2005, 07:31 PM

Wow this guy looks like he has a Jack.

Waiting until the turn to raise when the flop is paired is pretty scary.

I would probably just call down after the turn raise.

mute · #3 04-20-2005, 07:42 PM

You can't not bet the turn, when he just called the flop.

The real question is whether you should 3bet. Given that he is defending his blind, there is alot of hands he could be 3betting with preflop that holds a jack. On the other hand many players defend their blinds overzealously, so he is likely to play hands much worse in the same way.

All things considered, I would 3bet here, and call down if capped.

Nick C · #4 04-20-2005, 07:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When he didn't come after me on the flop, I put him on a big non-jack PP...and played accordingly. Should I have slowed down on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your unknown opponent will more likely play aggressively on the flop with a pocket pair than with a jack. With trips, there's a really good chance he'll wait and pop you on the turn.

All the same, he might do that with a big pair as well. I'm certainly not narrowing his range of hands down to trips or 55 or 22 when he raises the turn. Still, you have shown nothing but strength so far, so I would be a little concerned.

Anyway, leading the turn is good. Basically, it's a value bet. You're probably best and want to get more money in. Once you get raised, I'm not sure what's ideal. I kind of want to 3-bet and then start calling down if it gets capped. But your stop-n-go does seem like a valid option to me too, and it loses one less BB those times you're behind.

Anyway, though, I slow down too soon sometimes, and I also sometimes try to compensate for this when giving advice, so I'm curious what others will say. In any event, one difficulty is that it's hard to know for certain how much BB is taking your preflop raise and cap seriously and how much he's interpreting it as a possible steal with a good but less-than-premium hand. I think, in general, an unknown will start taking you seriously (if he wasn't before) when you cap preflop, and if that's the case, then the turn raise very well could mean trouble.

BriPlay · #5 04-20-2005, 07:48 PM

yea..i'd probably slow down on the turn a little.
he might have AJ or even J5 and be slowplaying the nuts or near nuts. When he raises the turn with the 2 falling..you have to think Jack. check and call river.
Brian

BriPlay · #6 04-20-2005, 08:00 PM

wow..seems to me 3 betting the turn here is dangerous.
What you say about villain's preflop play from BB is true, but its his POST FLOP play thats scary. Seems odd that QQ, KK, or TT would play by calling flop and raising turn.
Playing this assuming he's bluffing is an expensive decision. I like to be aggressive, but i'd have to just call here.
Brian