AQ early on, too passive?

Matt Walker · #1 04-19-2005, 02:30 AM

This hand came up at a low stakes tourney I was playing earlier tongight. The preflop raiser had been playing loose agressive prior to this. The guy who called behind I don't rember being in too many pots and hadn't done anything I considered blatenly dumb, but poker tracker had his Vol at 40 so hes loose.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero (t1010)
CO (t675)
Button (t1545)
SB (t785)
BB (t925)
UTG (t995)
UTG+1 (t755)
MP1 (t535)
MP2 (t775)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t15, 1 fold, MP1 calls t15, 1 fold, Hero calls t15, CO calls t15, 1 fold, SB completes, BB raises to t75, UTG folds, MP1 calls t60, Hero calls t60, CO calls t60, SB folds.

Flop: (t330) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets t300, MP1 folds, Hero calls t300, CO calls t300.

Turn: (t1230) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets t95, Hero calls t95, CO calls t95.

River: (t1515) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: t1515

Results in white below: 
BB has 9s 9h (one pair, nines).
Hero has Qc As (one pair, queens).
CO has Qd 6d (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins t1515. 

My thought process:
Preflop - AQ isn't that strong so I thought I'd try to keep the pot small so I don't have to bet huge on the flop to protect my hand if it hits. Also at low levels I could get a bunch of callers. Limping has the added benefit that bad players with worse aces who limp in and hit their ace on the flop think they are good since their was no PFR.
When the guy raises I have no reason to think I'm behind as its a great spot to make a move with any decent hand.

Flop - What a lovely flop. I put the raiser either on AA KK AK, AQ or a mid pocket as hes not afraid to bet the flop. Against all of these hands hes drawing to few outs if hes not already ahead so I like calling and letting him bet into me again on the turn before I pop him with a raise. I don't like the call behind but hes loose I'm thinking a worse queen who doesn't realize hes retarded.

Turn - OUCH the one card I don't like to see. I'd fold to any significant bet but not 95.

River - Hope my marginal hand holds up.

Thoughts?

EverettKings · #2 04-19-2005, 02:37 AM

I like it preflop. I like it on the flop. I even like the turn. But PLEASE bet the river. He slowed down. Hechecked to you, no way is he slowplaying. I guess CO has a SLIGHT chance of waking up with KQ and betting behind you but i would have expected a turn raise, and you can just pay that off. I bet 300 ish on the river for value, and watch QJ and TT call me.

-Kings

EverettKings · #3 04-19-2005, 02:38 AM

I posted that without looking at results. BOO YAH!

-Kings

Apathy · #4 04-19-2005, 03:23 AM

Hmmm, well I fold this PF, but post flop you played it well, the K on the turn shouldnt scare you but just calling is still ok to keep the pot managable and to be able to fold if the CO who called a 300 bet after a caller comes to life on the turn. I would be very worried about them but not worried about the BB anymore after the weak turn bet, looks like JJ, or maybe a lower PP since you said he was loose. The river play is good too, not much value in betting even though you stand to have the best hand given the action.

EverettKings · #5 04-19-2005, 03:27 AM

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Hmmm, well I fold this PF

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You're getting fantastic odds in position with a hand that is quite possibly best. Good god don't fold.
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The river play is good too, not much value in betting even though you stand to have the best hand given the action.

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Why wouldn't you value bet if you stand to have the best hand given the action?

-Kings

Freudian · #6 04-19-2005, 03:34 AM

I don't like calling raises with AQ in level 1. So I would fold preflop.

Rest of the hand is fine. If one or both of the other two is very passive I like river. Otherwise I would bet there.

Freudian · #7 04-19-2005, 03:36 AM

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You're getting fantastic odds in position with a hand that is quite possibly best. Good god don't fold.

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That's a slippery slope once you enter it. You will be getting great odds for a lot of hands in level 1-2.

Apathy · #8 04-19-2005, 03:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You're getting fantastic odds in position with a hand that is quite possibly best. Good god don't fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero is MP3, not "in positon". In case it wasnt clear I mean fold originally, not fold to the raise, I mean fold instead of limp.

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Why wouldn't you value bet if you stand to have the best hand given the action?

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What would you bet? You are not in positon and cant call a push by either player really, but especially by the one who has represented the most strength in the hand. Plus, I don't really see what hands your getting paid off by. BB is not calling unless your beaten and MP3 isnt either, unless they are total idiots.

EverettKings · #9 04-19-2005, 03:50 AM

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In case it wasnt clear I mean fold originally, not fold to the raise, I mean fold instead of limp.

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I know people that play this way, it just ain't my style. At the small stakes I think I can avoid large pots when I'm not best, and get paid off when I am. And you are in position relative to the preflop raiser, which is important.

[ QUOTE ]
What would you bet? You are not in positon and cant call a push by either player really, but especially by the one who has represented the most strength in the hand. Plus, I don't really see what hands your getting paid off by. BB is not calling unless your beaten and MP3 isnt either, unless they are total idiots.

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Nothing drastically changed on the river, so I doubt these two both magically run away when you bet. The disgusting overbet by the aggressor reeks of a medium pp to me, and I see far too many people call even river bets here, especially if the pot is large and my bet is modest. The caller also reeks of a weak player not getting away from his Q-med, and if he called this far no way does he fold now. If this were a 100+9 STT things would be different but you have to play for value at these small stakes. You'd be shocked how often you get paid off.

-Kings

Apathy · #10 04-19-2005, 04:03 AM

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You'd be shocked how often you get paid off.

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I'm sure I would be but I think if the OP didn't post the results you wouldnt be as rock solid or your read of Q med (he called a PF raise and then huge flop bet, after a caller)for the cold caller. Also Q-mid could easily be two pair on the turn or river.

Bottom line - betting AQ on a 74QK3 board into two opponents in a big pot, after only one has checked "for value" is not a winning play. At any level.