NL600...should my opponent fold KK preflop?

HoldEmKillah · #1 04-11-2005, 07:52 PM

Results of this hand don't matter although I will post them at a later date anyway. The point of this post is that it got me to thinking about my opponents' hand and weather or not it would be correct for him to fold KK preflop. The Button in this hand is dealt KK. I have ??. I'm sure that my opponent must have some sort of read on me alhtough I'm not sure how deep of a read it is. But I'm not a LAP and have not been playing reckless whatsoever. Do you think he should lay down his KK here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

CO ($672.65)
Button ($616.35)
Hero ($887.65)
BB ($361.85)
UTG ($780.65)
MP ($1065.4)

Preflop: Hero is SB with ??:. Hero posts a blind of $3.
UTG raises to $20, 2 folds, Button calls $20, Hero (poster) raises to $52, 1 fold, UTG calls $35, Button raises to $200, Hero raises to $422, UTG folds,

Greeksquared · #2 04-11-2005, 09:17 PM

If the only time any poker player who has ever played makes this third raise with AA then it is an obvious fold for the button with KK. But, since we don't play poker like a machine and he already has a third of his stack in and is getting more than 2-1 on his money when you move all the chips in, he is very unlikely to fold.

I don't think I like your continual 2*pr + (12 + 10(x-1)), where pr is previous raise amount and x is the number of your raise. If you are trying to build a pot to a hit a set, or can easily let go of aces, or are playing ridiculous bad opponents then this raise is ok....OR if you happen to run into KK while holding AA, then it is ok. If not, the raise is not good.

Spladle Master · #3 04-12-2005, 04:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I like your continual 2*pr + (12 + 10(x-1)), where pr is previous raise amount and x is the number of your raise. If you are trying to build a pot to a hit a set, or can easily let go of aces, or are playing ridiculous bad opponents then this raise is ok....OR if you happen to run into KK while holding AA, then it is ok. If not, the raise is not good.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly. Me, I'd probably make it $80-$90.

elindauer · #4 04-12-2005, 05:34 AM

Good game. What, $8 in the pot to start out and you got $700+ in the pot chasing it. Nice.

It's interesting to note that your raise is actually more scary than if you'd moved all-in. The button has to play the hand as though you moved in, since he can't possibly call preflop and then fold, and since it's obvious that you won't be folding should HE move in, he has to wonder, why would you make that raise?

It almost looks like you don't want the folding equity that would come with a larger raise. You WANT action. Yikes! Aces! Aaaa-ooooo-gah! Aaaa-ooooo-gah!

So I'd say, folding kings there against a tight predictable opponent might not be terrible. If he has much of a thought that you might read his $200 raise as weak and move in with QQ-JJ (say, he's been playing rather laggy recently, or he's seen you make big moves with weak cards before, or...) then he of course will be moving in himself.

Good luck.
Eric

Huhmare · #5 04-12-2005, 05:59 AM

I think Button made a mistake raising it to $200 if he is willing to fold it after you raise.. I can't see how Button can fold this after his huge raise.

kagame · #6 04-12-2005, 06:15 AM

classic KK v KK i think

he played it much better than you