What does villain have?

Ghazban · #1 04-06-2005, 10:14 PM

At the time this hand occurred, I was up from going after a lot of small pots and only getting looked up when I had a big hand. Within the past orbit, I busted someone else when I openraised 76s in the CO, flopped a gutshot straight flush draw, turned the straight flush and busted a badly played overpair.

I had not seen villain reraise preflop in the ~60 hands we'd played together so I expect its a legitimate hand. His flop bet is so tiny that I felt he also had AK and we'd be splitting. His checking the turn made this seem more likely to me but his bet on the river confused me as its something I'd expect from AsQs (which I wouldn't expect to reraise preflop). I suppose he could have QQ, but this seems like an extremely weak way to play it on such a coordinated board.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (8 handed) converter

BB ($154.93)
UTG ($202.1)
UTG+1 ($200)
Hero ($522.55)
Villain/ ($147.2)
CO ($251.25)
Button ($236.65)
SB ($228.7)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, Hero raises to $6, Villain raises to $15, 4 folds, Hero calls $9.

Flop: ($33) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain bets $10, Hero calls $10.

Turn: ($53) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain checks.

River: ($53) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain bets $20, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $73

jkl · #2 04-06-2005, 10:28 PM

Pocket Pair? Turn says maybe he is worried about str8? Your calling indicates you have some sort of draw. You may have wanted to raise the flop to find out where you are.

TheWorstPlayer · #3 04-07-2005, 12:08 AM

I don't like your flop call at all. If you are ahead or splitting, raise it up. If you are behind, you don't have odds to call. Personally, I probably fold this here most often. You could be drawing near dead to AA. If you aren't drawing dead, you aren't going to make any extra money if you hit since your hand is quite transparent. No one with QQ is going to give you any action if an A/K hits. You called the re-raise thinking his hand range is what? AA-JJ/AK? You aren't really doing that well against that hand range and it doesn't sound like this guy's hand range is much wider if it is even that wide. Honestly, I would probably fold preflop if this guy is tight. The problem with AK is that when you are ahead when you hit, you aren't making anything and when you are behind when you hit, you are paying through the nose. I'd much rather have TT against a re-raiser than AK.

Ghazban · #4 04-07-2005, 09:18 AM

I agree that the flop call is not ideal, but I wanted to see what he was going to do on the turn and possibly take it away from him then (if a fourth straightening card or third spade came, I may have made a play). People in this game often will check the turn through if they get called on the flop (an overgeneralization, I'll admit) so I'd get two chances to hit my overcards, which makes 4:1 not a bad price.

I agree that I'd rather have TT against a reraiser than AK but this player wasn't a total rock. While he hadn't been raising or reraising much, he had made a lot of loose limps (J8s UTG, T8o in EMP, Q4s in LP et al).

I don't claim I played this hand well (I didn't); I just had a hard time putting villain on anything. I can't think of any two hole cards where his line is a good one.

PinkSteel · #5 04-07-2005, 09:47 AM

Villain may be tight, but on the other hand he may have seen trash for 60 hands and finally picked up something he can play, then from frustration decided to raise it up. I'm sure you good players never do this but I know some who do. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

What about leading the flop? Bad idea after his preflop raise?

aexchange · #6 04-07-2005, 02:05 PM

looks like 99 or A5s on the flop. if he's been playing with marginal hands, he may have been raising on the flop to see where he was, or to simply take it down.

the ends looks like a value bet, since you both checked it through, to induce a call. i may have lead out with a 1/3 to 1/2 size bet on the river and fold to any reraise or aggression. just my feeling, but i think you played this too passively.

Ghazban · #7 04-07-2005, 02:47 PM

Do you really think villain is reraising 99 or A5s preflop? Possible, but I think its unlikely.

mason55 · #8 04-07-2005, 03:10 PM

I don't see why you think AK still isn't a possibility? You checked to him on the flop, he made a continuation bet. You checked to him on the turn, he got scared you would call (he's passive, right?) so he checked through. You checked to him on the river and he thought he could take it away with a 1/3 pot bet since you checked to him 3 times. AK seems most likely, although AQs is a possibliity if he's actually a fish but he's been getting real trash for awhile.

I might have even fired a $20 blocker at that queen.

Yeknom58 · #9 04-07-2005, 03:14 PM

"The problem with AK is that when you are ahead when you hit, you aren't making anything and when you are behind when you hit, you are paying through the nose"

This concept can also be applied to post flop play when holding a drawing hand.

Yeknom58 · #10 04-07-2005, 03:24 PM

I would seriously consider just folding this preflop.

If I called I'm either leading the flop or check/folding..most likely folding.

His bet was pretty small so maybe you smell blood in the water....if that was the case I would bet any turn card.

As to what he could have....who knows you checked 3 times.