Call 2 with flush draw on a paired board??? weak tight??

[That guy]

BB is 16 / 12 over 400 hands
UTG+1 is 25 / 7 over 100 hands


Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (5.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 folds, Hero calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, Hero ???

[flair1239]

To start breaking down, you are drawing dead to QQ, TT, QT, Q4, 44, Axs, Kxs. QT is a definite possbility from the BB, but less so for UTG although QTs would not be out of line.

The flop action would seem to indicate that someone made at least top pair. It looks like both players would have raised AQ from their respective postiions. BB looks like he would have probably raised KQ from the blind. Also They both look like TT would be a PF raise as well. But 44 is a definite possibility for one of them to have.

However the turn would almost indicate that you are probably not up against another flush draw. So we have to think about a boat. Right now you are getting almost 6-1 to call, but it looks likely that you may be three-bet.

So let's look at the worst possible scenario, that the turn is capped. It if it was capped and everyone stayed in you will have essentially drawn to your flush at a little over 4-1 (8.7BB in pot with the twop other players money 16.7BB, you would be putting in 4BB). It would seem that with implied odds you should be able to draw.

But if we are assuming someone just mad trips queens (at least). Then we have some discounting to do. The Ts is no longer an out. and we don't really no about a K or even a A, plus the possbility that we are already dead. So instead of nine outs lets say we have 7. Now we need 5.5-1 to draw.

If we make our flush and it is good our best case scenario we will make four more BB.

So I don't know it is close. IT depends how much you discount and whether you pay off the river if you hit and it still ends up being 2-bets to you. I am tempted to discount more and dump this.

[cachorrito]

Shouldn't we be counting the three 9 outs to a straight, as well?

[KDawgCometh]

I'm wondering, is there a case for maybe capping this flop with the flush draw and gutshot straight draw? Or would that be chip spewing?