A Double Shootout WSOP seat hand

[woodguy]

Hello All,

This was the first table of a doulbe shoot out, very early.

I was not in the hand, but was asked to post it by a co-woker who lurks, but doesn't post.

Full table.

PLAYER 1 has 1500 chips
PLAYER 2 has 1700 chips
BB=30

UTG LIMPS, EP LIPMS, P1 LIMPS K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], P2 LIMPS, BUTTON LIMPS, SB COMPLETES, BB CALLS

FLOP (210) J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

All check to P2, who bets 150, SB calls P1 calls

Turn (660) T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

P1 checks, P2 bets 500, button folds P1 raises 1320 all in. P2 calls

River (all the $$$) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

P2 shows J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and takes it down.

Comments on P1 and P2 plays for all streets welcome.

Specific comments on P1's flop call and turn c/r wanted.

edit: FWIW I like a PF raise here by P1 to buy the button and limit the field. I think the flop call is pretty loose and the biggest mistake as you cannot be sure both your overcards are good and there is no immediate draw.

I dont hate the c/r all in, but P2 is getting ~3-1 so your folding equity isn't great and you are ~2.6-1 to hit.

I think P2 played fine.

I thought it was too early to get this frisky in a single table tourney. If it was a big MTT I could defend P!'s play a little more, but not here.

Thanks,
Woodguy

[locutus2002]

I wouldn't c/r the turn. I don't think you have any fold equity after he bets the turn, he's going to call and you have the worst of it even against a lone jack.
I might push the turn if I felt he had a lone jack.

[betgo]

P2 should probably fold preflop, but limping is OK.

P1 should fold on the flop. All you have is overcards.

On the turn, P1 has a flush draw, an open ended, and overcards, but this is not nearly as strong as it would be on the flop. P1 is probably a significant dog to a pair, about a 2-1 dog in this case. Unless there is a good chance the push will cause P2 to fold, I would flat call.

[M.B.E.]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't c/r the turn. I don't think you have any fold equity after he bets the turn, he's going to call and you have the worst of it even against a lone jack.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like the turn checkraise; it looks a lot like a set and despite P2's pot odds he should be folding hands like QJ and KJ here.

P1's flop call was terrible, however.

[M.B.E.]

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, P1 has a flush draw, an open ended, and overcards, but this is not nearly as strong as it would be on the flop. P1 is probably a significant dog to a pair, about a 2-1 dog in this case.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, if P2 has AJ, then P2 is just a 55:45 favourite over P1. KJ is a 60:40 favourite over P1 on the turn, but KJ is likely to fold to the checkraise.

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
KJ is likely to fold to the checkraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see many online opponents folding KJ here.

[tiger7210]

i really dislike the call on the flop. Calling here can only get you in trouble and bleed off valuable chips. P2 has announced that the flop hit him with at least TP in a 7 way pot. My thoughts are, he limped in PF which could be a small pair( possible set w/ 55's or 33's). He may have a drawing hand (AJ/KJ/QJ/JT). Of the 6 hands i think he may have only 2 give me some outs. If the K or Q hits the turn I could seriously lose all my chips to my his 2 pair or even his set. You spent 30 chips on a drawing hand that missed, fold and move on to the next and conserve your chips for a better spot.

[Potowame]

I really dont like the play on any street..

Preflop: I would raise here 5xbb

Flop: with the two back door draws and two overs it might suck you in , but i fold.

Turn: with the call , Check raise is bad, he is not getting any fold equity that way. a push would be alot better.

[gergery]

My experience in the early parts of tourneys is people are too willing to call for implied odds and too willing to bluff. So I want to be trapping/value betting good hands, and seeing cheap flops. Especially in doubleshoot out where correct play is to gamble a bit more than usual. I do not want to be bluffing or semibluffing at this stage of tourney – that comes later. Basically, I’m looking for situations where I can have a strong made hand that simultaneously allows a good but slightly weaker 2nd best hand.

With that philosophy, my 2 cents:
Preflop – I like a call best

Flop – Easy fold. Anything else is bad. The main problem is that many turn cards help you somewhat but no turn cards make you feel very comfortable. Any cards that help you out either don’t give you a strong hand (TP), or scare your opponent (flush/straight card) into either betting strong (if he has a decent hand) or folding (if he doesn’t). So there are no implied odds, which is the whole point of playing hands in the early stages.

Turn – Ugh. If he has a J, I don’t see him folding it. If he is bluffing, you’d prefer to snap it off. So I guess I like checking better than betting, except if it will freeze him and let me see a cheap river. Once he bets strong, I give him credit for the J. Now folding, calling and pushing are all options depending on what he is most likely to do in response to my range of actions on turn/river, but given how you got here pushing is a reasonable choice and is probably the best option.

--G