2-4 at New York Poker Club

[ImJWish]

I had about 600 in front of me when the following hand came up.

It is 9 handed. Weak Tight player in early position calls the initial bet, folded around to an aggressive player who just posted a BB after taking a bathroom break, I have AJ in the BB and decide to raise it to 20. Both blinds fold, the initial caller and aggressive player both call.
FLOP: 6d 5h 3s.
Both playaers check
Now, usually I'll bet 3/4 the pot here but Ive beeen stabbing around all day and the last time I tried, the aggressor bluff raised me (probably) out of a pot. So, a little timid, I decided to check and get a free card and bet it out if its a T or above.
Turn: 5s. Early checks, aggressor bets 30, I call quickly (unsure if Im good or not but I could possibly take it away if certain cards come out (4, 7, 3) and could win with an A or J. Early position folds
River: Q. aggressor bets out 70. Whats my play?

[BigSkiRace]

Fold, but you still played this hand terribly wrong, on many levels, in IMHO. If you really want to take this bet down right here, Bet the pot and take it down. On the turn, If I am checking the flop, I am re raising probably to about 120, on the turn to take it down. The river if you played the hand as bad as you did you have to make a decision calling is not a option and to take the pot down if he does not have much its going to take a big raise

[ImJWish]

I can't agree with what you've posted for two reasons:

First, as I said in the post, I had been betting at those pots all day and my aggressive oppenant would have certainly treid to bluff me off my hand. I would have rather tried for a free card that one hand, so I could get a free card, and pick up later pots with more of an image.

Second, if he checked off something like 76 on the flop, I don;t think my raise would have looked legitimate and would I would have been called on the turn. I feel like calling here and possibly taking him off his hand on the river would have been a better play.

[BigSkiRace]

If you truley belive how you are talking then you should re re raise the river he only bet 3/4 of the pot on the river if you were to re raise to say 160, it would put him to the test.

[greywolf]

and a river raise would look legitimate? Don't look for ways to take down every pot you play. I'd bet the flop here rather than checking it and calling the turn bet, sure they might raise you as a bluff but not always and they can't know wheter you hava a hand this time or if you are just messing around, the bluff raise is never a easy play to make. You are also seldom going to be able to steal the pot on the river and an ace or jack might not be enough to win.

[Post-Oak]

[ QUOTE ]
I had about 600 in front of me when the following hand came up.

It is 9 handed. Weak Tight player in early position calls the initial bet, folded around to an aggressive player who just posted a BB after taking a bathroom break, I have AJ in the BB and decide to raise it to 20. Both blinds fold, the initial caller and aggressive player both call.
FLOP: 6d 5h 3s.
Both playaers check
Now, usually I'll bet 3/4 the pot here but Ive beeen stabbing around all day and the last time I tried, the aggressor bluff raised me (probably) out of a pot. So, a little timid, I decided to check and get a free card and bet it out if its a T or above.
Turn: 5s. Early checks, aggressor bets 30, I call quickly (unsure if Im good or not but I could possibly take it away if certain cards come out (4, 7, 3) and could win with an A or J. Early position folds
River: Q. aggressor bets out 70. Whats my play?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that you played the hand terribly. I would go so far as to say you misplayed it on every street (excluding river, which we don't know what you did yet).

I would further speculate that you are not experienced enough to correctly label someone as "weak tight".

Generally speaking, AJ should not be raised out of the BB. You would only do this as a change of pace (especially when a tight player has already called in EP), and it does not sound like you were playing particularly tight up to this point, so that was just foolish.

Since you represented a hand preflop, you probably should have bet the flop. Saying "but the aggressive player would have raised me even if he had nothing" doesn't really cut it because then you REALLY should not be raising out of the blind with garbage like AJo. What type of flop were you hoping for against a tight player and a maniac?

The flat call on the turn is also terrible. Just fold. You have nothing. There will be better spots if this guy is half as aggressive as you suggest.

I suspect you probably did something stupid on the river also, but you should have just folded.

Against over aggressive fish it is best to play a straight forward game. Do not bluff them. Against true weak tight players, you will not win much from them raising out of the BB with AJ. Building the pot preflop with AJ (out of position) against that type of player is just plain stupid.

Until you get more experience, I would advise that you just NEVER raise with AJ out of the BB.

[Mad Genius1]

Post-Oak,

I agree with you, but it sounds like he was on the button, not the BB, if you read more closely. Raising AJo in the button still isn't recommended but not nearly as bad as raising it out of the BB. That would also explain why he was acting last on every street.

[Post-Oak]

<<<I have AJ in the ***BB*** and decide to raise it to 20. ***Both blinds fold***>>>

I guess you're right. He must have meant "button" and not "BB".

[RicktheRuler]

To his river bet? Fold.

[ImJWish]

Yes you're right, I meant button. I raised AJo out of the button. I did so because I felt like I had good control over the early player and didnt feel like the aggressor had much of a hand. I intended to take it down right there and once I got called in two spots, I felt like I wanted to give up the pot because I had been picking up pots all day and it was too obvious to bet out on a flop like that with two players. I feel like the tight player in early pos probably called me with a small pair and the aggressor was capable of bluff raising me. So, I checked the flop.

Now my river situation:

I tried to put him on a variety of hands here that I was losing to and was beating, and more hands I was beating came up in my mind then ones I was losing. If he say had 77-JJ, why would he come out firing with a 70 bet on the river of a Q. Also, if he had say AQ, KQ, or other queen hands, why would he try to value bet of 70 if I showed weakness on both rounds. The only hands I figured to have been losing to, in teh fashiong he played it, was 66 or a 5 or 33, and since he had called my raise preflop, it seemed 66 and 33 would be likely, but not necessarily a lone 5. His last aggressive bet just seemed suspicious enough for me to call with ace high in that situation, because I felt that there was a good chance that I had him beat, seeing how his last bet did not seem like a value bet at all.

I still agree with my turn play and disagree with the first posters lnie of thinking. An overbet in that spot would seem suspicious enough for any pair holding to call and is much too much to blow out a bluff. I feel like a call was in order so I could take the pot away from him later for reasons I have mentioned before. If certain cards hit, I feel like I could take the pot away if he shows weakness later and if an A or J hits, I might have his pair beat. THat combination of things would makea it better for me to call than to raise after checking the flop.