What's your plan with KK here?

[Ghazban]

1/2 live game. UTG is fairly straightforward but will occasionally take a hand like 32o and play it like its aces. UTG+1 is superpredictable and gives away his hands with his raise sizes (for example, raising to 3x is usually ATs or AJs, 5x is AQ/AK/99-JJ, and more is QQ-AA, will reraise TT-AA and AK preflop). Neither player is a number cruncher with respect to pot odds and pot committedness (that is, I don't think either of them ever realize that calling a bet one on street can pot commit either them or their opponent).

You have $105 and both UTG and UTG+1 have you covered. You showed down a 53o earlier in the evening that you raised with to steal and ended up hitting the flop hard enough to get to showdown but, since then, have been mostly tight and have only shown down reasonable starting hands (though you've picked up a few pots here and there without showing).

UTG raises to $6, UTG+1 reraises to $12 and its folded to you with KK in the CO.

What's your preflop play and why?

If you aren't all-in before the flop, what's your plan for the flop a) without an ace or king and b) with an ace but no king? (don't worry about the special case flops where you get QJT of the same suit as one of your kings or something-- basically, I think we can all agree that an ace is the single worst card you want to see on the flop).

I'm going to bed so I won't read this until tomorrow but I'm curious as to what other people would recommend. I think I made what was almost definitely the least profitable move [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[tree_stump]

3 bet... to $30ish. and just hope you don't see an A... Of course, if you get lucky there's only two left in the deck.

[DoubleDown]

this may be a little weak but here's my line FWIW

cold-call the PFre-raise. Possibly fold to a significant PF 3-bet from UTG. The reason why I'd play this KK so weakly is because of villains' positions. They are both in such early position and have showed a lot of strength.

BTW- when UTG+1 has previously re-raised PF, has it always been a min-raise? or has that varied as well with what he's held?

Once I get to the flop:
Ace on flop (no King): Fold if there is a bet to me from either EP player (as long as I'm not pot committed, which I won't be if UTG simply calls UTG+1's PF min-raise.)

No Ace or King on flop: If checked to, I'm checking behind as well. Since I'm either way ahead (lower PP or AK) or way behind (AA). I'm gonna let the hands that are worse than me bluff away at the pot, while lose the least to hands that have me in bad shape. I wouldn't necessarily try to get it all-in on the flop.

If theres a bet to me on the flop- I'd probably have to put in a raise and basically get pot-committed if I really can't sniff out AA or a possible set. If the board comes out something like QJ9 and theres a bet and raise before the action gets to me, I'd consider folding (I'm not saying I would fold, but I'd think about it.)

Did you end up pushing pre-flop and picking up the $21 on the table?

[Kaz The Original]

I'm making it $35 or $40 (whichever is more 'natural') and pushing any flop that is checked to me, calling any bets that put me all in on the flop without an ace, folding if someone bets decently on a flop that is an ace.

Caveat : I will check quads, if I flop them without an ace on bard.

[fortextreme]

I like reraising to about $25 here and trying to get it heads up against UTG+1. If i'm UTG i'm going to fold most hands here to 2 large raises from players in position. UTG+1 will probably call with any of the hands you said he would reraise with. If either of the players move all-in I probably give them credit for AA and fold considering they are both fairly straight forward.

If both players call you have to figure one has an ace so if an ace hits without a king hitting you have to let it go. If only one player calls and the ace hits I play it slowly and try to get to a showdown but fold to any show of major strength.

With no ace or king it depends on the how scary the board is but I probably play it pretty fast.

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm making it $35 or $40 (whichever is more 'natural') and pushing any flop that is checked to me, calling any bets that put me all in on the flop without an ace, folding if someone bets decently on a flop that is an ace.

Caveat : I will check quads, if I flop them without an ace on bard.

[/ QUOTE ]

2 seconds after the hand ended, I decided I should've played it this way. Instead, I pushed and everybody folded. Its not a good excuse but I had a strong gut feeling I was going to get outflopped so I might as well get the money in when I know I'm ahead. The reraiser said afterwards he had AKo and I believe him.

In my thinking about the hand, I believe that my stack size was the crucial issue here. If I'm a little deeper, I can call the reraise and play poker after the flop. If I'm a little shallower, I can call and push any flop without an ace on it. If I'm much much deeper, I can make a standard reraise and still play postflop poker. As it was, any reraise pot-commits me to a non-ace flop (though my opponents don't necessarily recognize that) and, on an A-high flop, I might get pushed off my hand by QQ-TT who suspects the ace scares me (as my hand is pretty well-defined by the 3rd bet preflop and an ace on the flop makes it less likely my pair is AA).

A similar hand came up later where I had AA, there was an UTG raise to $10 and a call, then I reraised to $40 (original raiser and caller had about $100 each to start the hand, I had them covered) and everyone folded -- different path, same result.

[Tilt]

Ghazban,

I either jack it up to 30 and push any Aceless flop, or cold call the raise preflop. It depends upon my opponent's biggest weaknesses. If they are prone to gamble preflop or don't give me much credit, I'd make the raise. If the players are overly aggressive postflop I would do the latter. I get the feeling here that one of them will have 99-QQ and will get overinvolved in a ragged flop, thats why I like that option here.

Your relative stack size makes the risk of allowing a flop more worthwhile to me. With a deeper stack I'd rather just play it straight and make the raise.

[schwza]

i'd make it 35. it would put 35+35+6+3 - rake = 73 in the pot if utg folds but utg+1 calls (which is likely). you'd have 70 in your stack, enough to make a normal push.

i'll push/call a non-ace board.

if it goes to the flop 3-way, i'll check-fold an A board. if it's heads up, i'll push/call an A board. there are only 4 AK's once an A flops, and no decent player will get to the flop with AQ. there are 3 AA's. there's one more KK, and 6 QQ / JJ's, so i gotta believe he's got QQ/JJ.