Value Raise?

jimdmcevoy · #1 03-09-2005, 10:22 PM

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 ($63.50)
MP3 ($226.45)
CO ($97)
Button ($323.50)
SB ($182.70)
BB ($261.80)
UTG ($195.30)
UTG+1 ($82.95)
UTG+2 ($69.25)
Hero ($190)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls $2, Hero raises to $11, 6 folds, UTG calls $9, UTG+2 calls $9.

Flop: ($36) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $15, UTG calls $15, UTG+2 folds.

Turn: ($66) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: ($66) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $66

So should I call or raise? I think I have a good chance of getting called by two pair or a set since it's hard for him to put me on a 7

djr · #2 03-09-2005, 10:25 PM

curious...why the raise preflop?

UTG comes out swinging when the flush hits...are you not worried he might have it? I'd just call.

soah · #3 03-09-2005, 10:29 PM

What about flushes?

jimdmcevoy · #4 03-09-2005, 10:32 PM

Yeah, I raise every now and again with a suited connector, I figure it helps me since I am very tight (I have a PFR of about 3.5%)

Yes I feared the flush, but is he more likely to have a flush or a set/two pair?

And would he pay me off with a set/two pair?

AncientPC · #5 03-10-2005, 12:53 AM

Then raise from LP, not with 75s from MP1.

But no, I call / fold.

jimdmcevoy · #6 03-10-2005, 12:57 AM

But then people will no that if I raise from MP1 I have AA/KK/QQ/AK

Seems like giving away too much information

soah · #7 03-10-2005, 01:04 AM

Better than giving away too much money...

AncientPC · #8 03-10-2005, 01:10 AM

But then you're stuck with playing marginal / drawing hands out of position.

I'd rather be in position with crap like 85o than the above. Then again, I only play 6-max too so mixing it up from MP in full ring might work better.

If you need to up your PFR%, raise from LP or raise more marginal hands like AQ, KQ, AJ, or KJ from MP. Raise from AA-77. It's a lot easier to play big broadway / pockets out of position post flop in my opinion.

jimdmcevoy · #9 03-10-2005, 01:17 AM

Yeah, this is something I'm not too sure about, but wouldn't you rather have 75 suited than KJ when some one called your raise?

AncientPC · #10 03-10-2005, 01:36 AM

No, KJ can redraw to the best hand on a missed ragged flop more often than 75s can. If you missed a painted flop you can be drawing to a gutshot or backdoor flush.

Even if you hit the flop after PFR'ing, most of the time you only make a marginal hand with 75s like T 7 3 or 7 6 2. Opponents will still call you down because they think you missed with big broadway. They'll call you down with hands like TPTK or small overpairs even with just middle pair but outkick you. Or they'll just fold.

Point being, they will rarely call you down with hands you beat.

The times you hit two pair or a straight and get paid off just aren't enough. It's also difficult to play baby flushes out of position.

I know some of you are afraid of playing dominated hands, especially out of position. I try not to build big pots past the flop with TPMK but it is really dependent on who called you.

There are also times when you will hit top two pair against someone with TPTK and they will pay you off.