online to B&M what to expect?

[Nalapoint1]

i do ok online in 15/30 LHE and 200NL.i am same distance from Turningstone,Seneca Niagra,and Seneca Salamanca.never played in a casino.are the casino players a lot more skilled than online players? should i just watch for a while before i start playing?should i start at lower limits?i play NL much better th Limit. which casino would you suggest and why? any comments would be appreciated.

[JohnnyHumongous]

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are the casino players a lot more skilled than online players?

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hahahahahaha aw that's good [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] The answer is B&M players are typically terrible. I beat 5-10 at B&Ms from the very first day I played them, and I began playing online several months after starting playing at B&Ms. Some of my friends who also played 5-10 or 10-20 with me feel most comfortable at like 3-6 online.

If I were you I would start at 5-10 or something to get your feet wet, but if you are a winner at 15-30 online you will find the 5-10 game to be ridiculously easy. After an hour ask for a table change to a higher limit.

[David Steele]

The B&M games are much easier but I would allow a session or two of lowest limit to get used to handling the chips and visualizing the action at the table.

D.

[TStoneMBD]

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The B&M games are much easier but I would allow a session or two of lowest limit to get used to handling the chips and visualizing the action at the table.

D.

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good point.

if you feel that you arent making mistakes because of the awkwardness of playing live, then the games are much easier than they are online. if you arent equipped to beat loose-passive games then you wont do as well, and will probably spew alot of chips.

[Zoltri]

Overall, I would say online players are better than B&M players. However, a good live player will take most online players to the cleaners.

And its not even close.

[ethan]

I made my first foray into B&M no-limit tonight at the bike. I played for 6 hours, and left with exactly the same amount of money (to the penny) I'd brought with me. My profit thus consisted of a BLT and a Pepsi, for an earn rate of around $0.75/hour.

I RULE.

(Although if my JJ had held up all-in preflop vs 66 and 99 I'd have been up $350 or so. B&M is just as rigged as Party, but the games are easier.) It wasn't as intimidating as I'd expected it to be. It takes a little while to get used to the rhythm of the game, and you may act out of turn on occasion, but you'll get the hang of it pretty quickly.

[revots33]

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are the casino players a lot more skilled than online players?

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If you are a winning player at 15-30 online then the lower-limit B&M games should be like a shooting gallery.

B&M players are generally much worse and wayyyyyy looser than online. Don't know what limits you're planning on starting at, but if you play $3-6 to start, the play will roughly equal $.50-1 online. 6-8 players seeing the flop, 3-4 to the river, hands like Q8 and J9 cold-calling raises, etc. Be prepared for some crazy play and big suckouts occasionally. Most are there to gamboool - the game moves much slower than online (and you obviously can't multitable), so people get impatient and start playing just about anything - they didn't drive to the casino to fold!

I've never played higher than $3-6 B&M so I can't really say how tight a $15-30 B&M game might be. I'd imagine it's looser than online, but I'm sure there are probably some good regular players in those games.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

This is now my generic response to all internet players who want to go play live. It's an old post of mine, slightly ranty, but it tells the story...

(slightly RANTing) but advice nonetheless
10/22/04 12:58 AM


Yes, I have advice. But I feel slightly RANTY tonight, so bear with me....

Please do not be one of those internet players who can play poker well in a strategic sense, but has no idea how to conduct themselves in a live cardroom. These internet wanna-bees are everywhere these days, and they are just annoying as hell for us B&M regulars. It's like they get used to the internet doing all the work for them, and like a child who cannot entertain themselves without watching TV, they are inept and unable to function without the beeps and buzzes they are used to getting online.

Pay attention! Gawk at the waitress BETWEEN hands, not while everyone is waiting for you to act.

If you are going to wear glasses, make sure your eyesight is sufficient that you can actually SEE the cards, suits, etc.

Don't blow smoke in other people's faces if it's a smoking room. Be polite with your smokes. If it's a non-smoking room, buy some listerine strips (or something) to keep your neighbors from gagging on your breath when you come back from smoking!

Play fast and learn the mechanics of live cardroom play before you sit down and irritate the dealer and other players in the game. If you have to sign up for "lessons" then do it. Lee Jones book does have some good advice on cardroom ettiquette. Read it if you aren't sure.

don't friggin' count out your chips one at a friggin' time out of your rack (which of course most internet wanna-be cardroom players insist on keeping on the table). Take the chips out of your rack and cut them like you know what you are doing. Single chip counters bug me, particularly if they are obviously internet players. Us B&M regulars are already aware that three comes after four, four comes after five, etc etc and don't need a fresh physical demonstration EVERY SINGLE TIME IT IS YOUR TURN TO BET/RAISE/CALL. Six chips are stacked 3 and 3, eight chips are stacked 4 and 4, ten chips are stacked 5 and 5, etc. Stacks of seven or nine or eleven or seventeen are completely useless, and the dealer will break them down anyway, thus wasting time counting chips you could have already properly stacked in the first place.

Stacks of chips on the table are in stacks of TWENTY. It's much easier to verify stacks for change/color up if you don't stack them by 23 or 39 or 14. If you are all-in in a no limit game, having your chips already stacked in a convenient manner will speed up the game immensely. Remember, the dealer MUST count your chips when you go all-in, so make it EASY for them.

Use basic courtesy and common sense when dealing and speaking to others involved in the game, including the dealer. I understand that the internet is a free-for-all contest to see who can be the most obnoxious, and I was sometimes guilty of this myself when I used to (GAG) play online. However, in a live cardroom this crap doesn't fly. While there are 50,000,000,000,001 idiot moron fish waiting to take the place of anyone who you piss off on the internet, in a live game, if you piss off the fish you may wind up in a game full of rocks with a profitability margin of 0.000000000000000001%.

Let the DEALER run the game. Listen to them and follow their commands/prompts. While some dealers these days are inept and incompetent, most can run the game efficiently enough. They are ALL much better if you don't make their job difficult.

Tip the dealers when you win a pot. An extremely large tip is not required, but don't be a friggin' stiff either. I generally tip 2% of the pot, but usually try to tip a buck even if the pot is less than $50. If it's REALLY small I don't tip a buck, but might tip a half dollar or couple or three quarters anyway. Stealing the blinds does not require a tip. Tip your waitress for your drinks, and give the chip runner a buck when they bring you your chips! Live cardrooms require tipping! If the floorperson or brush does something particularly nice, it never hurts to tip them as well (most cardrooms allow tipping floorpeople, tho a few don't, obviously they will tell you if it's not allowed).

Protect your hand! This is more important than what beats what! Cup your hands around your cards and lift up the corners, peeking in the little "window" to see what you have. Don't remove your cards from the felt! They should never leave the table! Don't let go of them until A) they have killed all the losing hands and are pushing the chips your direction, or B) you are certain your hand is a loser. Once your cards touch the muck pile, THEY ARE COMPLETELY AND FOREVER DEAD AND YOU HAVE NO FURTHER RIGHT TO THE POT REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU HAVE.

FLOORMAN'S DECISIONS ARE FINAL. Don't argue with the floorman!

If you want to raise, say "RAISE" loudly and clearly. Then you may count the chips out at your leisure. If you try to raise (without saying it out loud) and make multiple motions towards your chips, you have made a "string bet" and it won't be allowed to stand. Multiple motions for bets or raises are just not kosher in a live cardroom. Just say it out loud "RAISE" and you'll be fine. If you are playing no limit, you might say "raise to fifty" or "make it $110." Then you can count them out as you wish without fear of being guilty of a string raise (which a dealer won't allow to stand, and correctly so).

Oversized chip rule: If you are going to call with an oversized chip, just tossing it in the pot indicates a CALL. Say the bb is $2 and you wish to make it $5. Well, if you just toss in a red chip and don't say anything, YOU HAVE CALLED. If you say "RAISE" and toss in a red chip, now the bet is legitimately $5. Another way to deal with this is to just use five $1 chips instead of a $5 chip.

When you fold, push your cards to where the dealer doesn't have to do the friggin limbo stretch across the table to retrieve them. Same thing for when you place a bet.

Place your bet in front of you, and far enough where the dealer can easily collect it, and in the proper stack configuration for the bet you are making (see above paragraph on stacking bets). Don't splash the friggin' pot! It's cool when teddy-kgb does it, but it is a real annoyance when some moron does it in a live game and the dealer has to count down the pot to verify the bets.

In general, do everything you can to get that game going fast and to make the fish feel comfortable! Live play is slower than internet play, like usually almost 50% slower. You need to do everything in the world that you can to act quickly and efficiently.

Rant completed!

al

[Zoltri]

You are the man Al!!!!!!

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[dabluebery]

Ok. I live on Long Island, and typically make trips to AC (Taj, Borgata) and up to Foxwoods. My bankroll lets me play in 2/4 and 3/6 at the casinos, and I usually play 1/2 and 2/4 online, and am a winning player, 17% VPIP, TAG, etc.

My boss goes with me on some business trips, and we're in casino's fairly often. He usually blows $1000 on slot machines in about 8 minutes. After seeing me play in casinos, and him knowing about my online play, he's asked me about just giving me the money he'd blow on slots, and letting me play with it. With $500, I think I could play 5/10, or with $1000, I could sit down at a 10/20 game. We'd split the winnings, or he'd just absorb the losses.

I don't want to waste his money, even though he would anyway on slots. I've been thinking it through, and I think my results at 10/20 or 5/10 at a casino would be fine. I don't think I could approach my win-rate at 2/4, but from a variance perspective, I'd be in much better shape. Am I wrong?

What should I do?