question about a decision at commerce 3/5NL

fimbulwinter · #1 03-08-2005, 10:38 PM

i was in SB, me and button are very deep at this point.

folded to button who makes it 30 over a $5 blind, i call with 44, BB goes all-in for 55 total, button re-pushes for his whole stack. the dealer counts it and it's like 1.2K back to me, so i flick my cards to the other side of the white line and ask the dealer if he's allowed to make that raise, to which the deealer responds "yes".

the floor comes over and sees this and says he's not allowed to make that raise and so i quickly reclaim my cards (which were not yet in the much but were flicked away by me) but the dealer and the floor quickly come to the decision that since i flicked my cards, i'm out and can't stay in the hand for $25 more which would have been a boon since i now know the button holds something at least worth isolating with.

my question is that if i am given wrong information by the dealer and act on it, are my actions then my own fault, even if the decision is later overturned? do i need to ask for a floor every time in this decision before picthing my cards?

fim

ShawnHoo · #2 03-08-2005, 10:46 PM

This decision seems questionable as I'm reading it (it's not like there was action behind you after you folded). However, the situation should have been avoided by you not relinquishing your hand before asking if the re-raise was legit.

Given the multitude of sub-par to outright incompetent dealers at Commerce, you should never hesitate to ask if a play was valid before considering your next action.

juanez · #3 03-08-2005, 11:22 PM

so i flick my cards to the other side of the white line and ask the dealer if he's allowed to make that raise, to which the deealer responds "yes".

my question is that if i am given wrong information by the dealer and act on it, are my actions then my own fault, even if the decision is later overturned? do i need to ask for a floor every time in this decision before picthing my cards?

Not to be a jerk, but you acted first (pitched your cards) then got bad information from the dealer. Next time, protect your cards FIRST and THEN ask if the raise is allowed. Don't pitch them, then ask - it's too late if they are swept or slide into the muck (I realize your cards didn't hit the muck yet).

If you think the dealers answer is wrong, don't hesitate to ask for the floor before pitching your cards.

The point is to always protect your cards until you are either satisfied with the situation or the floor has made a decision.

youtalkfunny · #4 03-09-2005, 04:42 AM

I fail to see where the dealer was mistaken.

The BB is $5.

The button makes it $30 to go. That's a $25 raise.

The BB makes it $55. That's a $25 re-raise.

The action has been re-opened. Anything goes.

If my understanding of the action is correct, the dealer made the right call.

ThinkQuick · #5 03-09-2005, 04:53 AM

The mistake that the dealer made was not mucking your cards the instant they got flicked to him or her. This is one thing that a number of dealers don't do very efficiently and it would have solved sooo many of the controversies that I have personally seen.

It's an interesting situation you're in here though because your cards aren't mucked, there's no action affected by your 'angleshot' and .. well I don't know I'm not a floorman.

mosch · #6 03-09-2005, 09:37 AM

You're right. The poster has either made an error in the post, or the floor came to the wrong decision about whether or not the push re-opened the action.

The poster also made an error tossing his cards before there was a decision made. If you're calling for a floor decision, protect your hand until the decision is made.