Question for Dr. Al...and anyone else

zuluking · #1 03-10-2005, 10:41 PM

Since moving to 2/4 in January, I run into one of these type hands about every other day. They're just GIVING me their money. Why?

Side note: MP2 re-raises all-in on the river, the converter doesn't show it. I re-raised the all-in.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, UTG calls.

River: (10.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG has Kc 6c (two pair, queens and threes).
Hero has Ac Ad (two pair, aces and queens).
MP2 has Kh 7h (two pair, queens and threes).
Outcome: Hero wins 15.75 BB.

Demana · #2 03-10-2005, 11:13 PM

People play for a variety of reasons and online gives people an even easier avenue with which to exercise their want to play. Some people suck bad (I certainly remember my days of being a calling station and worse).

Be happy that you are at such a great table.

btw - I think what is going on is that you are starting to feel remorse for *taking advantage of* these poor helpless people who just don't know how to play. Most of us have gone through this stage. Just peruse the last couple of weeks of psych posts and maybe one of them will strike a chord.

Al Schoonmaker · #3 03-11-2005, 01:00 AM

I am not familiar with the program you're using, but something seems very wrong. I don't know how the hero could raise. He bet and someone called. How can he raise?

I also have no idea what UTG had because I can't read anything in white.

Regards,

Al

MicroBob · #4 03-11-2005, 02:55 AM

Al - click and drag over that section and then you will see it.

MicroBob · #5 03-11-2005, 03:01 AM

I think lots of new players just don't know how to fold.

They will call-down just because they 'want to see it'.

When I first started playing online in Feb, 2003 I was kind of like this. I really didn't know whether to fold or raise or what.

Before that I had once played live casino poker...in 1996 just driving through Biloxi I stopped at the Grand and sat in on a 7-card stud game (I had no idea what hold-em was).
I probably played every hand all the way to 7th street.
I remember thinking....'wait...these guys aren't playing every hand like I am. Am I doing something wrong?'

Someting like that anyway.

Of course, things change in today's TV age....
Today, on TV, you see people bluff at pots with K5s and get the other guy with the better hand to fold.
Some new players honestly see this on TV in a heads-up situation and don't distinguish from that to a 10-player situation...nor do they distinguish between CALLING with garbage and BETTING at it with garbage.

for the newbie....everything can tend to happen so quick that there simply isn't any judgement used at all.

Again....in my first live-casino poker experience and my first 2 or 3 weeks of online-poker I was VERY MUCH like this.

kiddj · #6 03-11-2005, 09:57 AM

I think one of the traits of new, inexperienced, or downright "bad" players is that they don't consider anyone else's hand but their own. It takes extremely poor judgement for someone to not even consider what another player has, (or COULD have).

I've heard people say (and I'm sure I've said it myself) that: "These people are terrible! They don't respect my raises!". I don't think it's lack of respect, it's that they don't really consider what your raise could mean. Even if a person raises that i suspect is playing sub-optimally, I still force myself to consider what he would have to make him raise.

Additionally, I believe the players have the tendency to not be able to read the board past their own hands. The "bad" player thinks: "I have a flush!!!! That's a good hand!!! I must bet/raise!!!!", whereas the experienced player thinks: "I have a flush. Is it the nut? What could the other players have? Are there draws that could beat me? What play will get me the most money and/or push out possible draws?".

I know if there was two-pair on the board that completely missed my cards, I'd probably let the preflop raiser have it. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

zuluking · #7 03-11-2005, 10:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I am not familiar with the program you're using, but something seems very wrong. I don't know how the hero could raise. He bet and someone called. How can he raise?

I also have no idea what UTG had because I can't read anything in white.

Regards,

Al

[/ QUOTE ]

No problem the converter screwed up. MP2 re-raised all-in on the river and I re-raised the all-in. UTG had K high and so did MP2.

callydrias · #8 03-11-2005, 01:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Al - click and drag over that section and then you will see it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Al's referring to the fact that the hero raised himself on the river.

revots33 · #9 03-11-2005, 02:20 PM

Not much of an answer to this question other than that there's a lot of very bad players who think Kx suited is a big hand.

Also, some bad players simply refuse to fold a hand once they've put a single chip in the pot.

Of course, had a heart come up on the river, MP2 would have felt like a genius for cold-calling your reraise before the flop with his Kx suited. That's the beauty of poker - enough luck involved to keep the bad players coming back for more.

ShawnHoo · #10 03-11-2005, 02:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Since moving to 2/4 in January, I run into one of these type hands about every other day. They're just GIVING me their money. Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably because either:
1. They're simply bad/don't know what they're doing.
2. The money means nothing to them; they want to play as many hands as possible and have "fun".

I used to actually feel some guilt when I saw folks "giving" me their money this way, too. I got over it pretty quickly.