Coldcalling KQs on the button - always taboo?

MisterKing · #1 03-01-2005, 12:40 AM

PF raiser is a loose cannon, raising nearly 20% of his hands pre-flop and frequently paying off all the way to the river with second pair, etc. I generally don't coldcall with KQs in any situation, but I wonder if this was a reasonable situation for an exception to that rule.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $3.
UTG (poster) checks, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG folds.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (7.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, CO calls, Hero calls, SB raises, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (15.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 folds, CO folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB

jason_t · #2 03-01-2005, 12:42 AM

It's fine. Maybe I'll be chastized for this, but I'd think about raising that flop.

einbert · #3 03-01-2005, 12:44 AM

I think this is fine in such a multiway pot. I play the whole hand the same.

Wired Jokers · #4 03-01-2005, 12:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It's fine. Maybe I'll be chastized for this, but I'd think about raising that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is raising the flop good, at all? Seems pretty chip spewy to me.

To answer the original question, the pre-flop cold call is one of the rare exceptions to do so. I would consider raising pre-flop (read dependant), but usually I would just call, especially if the blinds are loose, which is common in low stakes.

einbert · #5 03-01-2005, 12:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It's fine. Maybe I'll be chastized for this, but I'd think about raising that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like just calling because if you hit a K or Q on the turn hopefully the PFR will bet and you can raise to protect your hand somewhat.

Mike Gallo · #6 03-01-2005, 12:57 AM

Explain your rationale behind raising please.

adamstewart · #7 03-01-2005, 01:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Explain your rationale behind raising please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a typical EP preflop raiser, I wouldn't raise this flop. I don't think I would here, either.

However, given read on the villain:
"PF raiser is a loose cannon, raising nearly 20% of his hands pre-flop and frequently paying off all the way to the river with second pair, etc. "

... it may be okay here (potential free card, and potential value raise, given the number of opponents).

Adam

adamstewart · #8 03-01-2005, 01:53 AM

I'd play it the same.

Adam

me454555 · #9 03-01-2005, 02:04 AM

Yuck. I don't like cold calling at all here. While cold calling is definatly better than folding, raising is clearly superior.

1) raiser is a loose cannon and you probobly have a better hand

2) You trap someone in the middle who you probobly have a better hand

3) You have position

4) You can get the blinds out who might want to call b/c they are getting great odds.

5) You can eliminate UTG poster

The whole hand plays differently if you 3 bet this pf and makes playing on the flop much easier. The way you played this postflop is fine.

adamstewart · #10 03-01-2005, 02:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yuck. I don't like cold calling at all here. While cold calling is definatly better than folding, raising is clearly superior.

1) raiser is a loose cannon and you probobly have a better hand

2) You trap someone in the middle who you probobly have a better hand

3) You have position

4) You can get the blinds out who might want to call b/c they are getting great odds.

5) You can eliminate UTG poster

The whole hand plays differently if you 3 bet this pf and makes playing on the flop much easier. The way you played this postflop is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very nice analysis.

What would you do if EP raiser was:

(a) Unknown
(b) TAGish

???

Adam