I suck at bluffing...

ZebraAss · #1 03-01-2005, 07:52 PM

Table is very weak. Is this a -EV play?

Level:4 Blinds(50/100)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 2: EBJS5 ( $1735 )
Seat 3: lou10 ( $1140 )
Seat 5: AbundantMom ( $315 )
Seat 7: paulieballs ( $990 )
Seat 8: crazyme9876 ( $1545 )
Seat 9: MMatl ( $2045 )
Seat 4: telliho429 ( $450 )
Seat 1: ZebraAss ( $1780 )
Trny:10010725 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ZebraAss [ 7h Qs ]
lou10 folds.
telliho429 folds.
AbundantMom folds.
paulieballs folds.
crazyme9876 folds.
MMatl raises [225].
ZebraAss calls [175].
EBJS5 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7d, Ac, 5c ]
ZebraAss checks.
MMatl bets [175].
ZebraAss calls [175].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3s ]
ZebraAss checks.
MMatl checks.
** Dealing River ** [ 5d ]
ZebraAss checks.
MMatl bets [325].
ZebraAss is all-In [1380]
MMatl folds.
ZebraAss does not show [ 7h, Qs ] two pairs, sevens and fives.
ZebraAss wins 2605 chips from the main pot with

The Yugoslavian · #2 03-01-2005, 07:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Table is very weak. Is this a -EV play?

[/ QUOTE ]

You've gotta be thinking more than just that. Did you have specific thoughts on the villian? Did you see him play previous hands?

[ QUOTE ]

Level:4 Blinds(50/100)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 2: EBJS5 ( $1735 )
Seat 3: lou10 ( $1140 )
Seat 5: AbundantMom ( $315 )
Seat 7: paulieballs ( $990 )
Seat 8: crazyme9876 ( $1545 )
Seat 9: MMatl ( $2045 )
Seat 4: telliho429 ( $450 )
Seat 1: ZebraAss ( $1780 )
Trny:10010725 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ZebraAss [ 7h Qs ]
lou10 folds.
telliho429 folds.
AbundantMom folds.
paulieballs folds.
crazyme9876 folds.
MMatl raises [225].
ZebraAss calls [175].
EBJS5 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7d, Ac, 5c ]
ZebraAss checks.
MMatl bets [175].
ZebraAss calls [175].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3s ]
ZebraAss checks.
MMatl checks.
** Dealing River ** [ 5d ]
ZebraAss checks.
MMatl bets [325].
ZebraAss is all-In [1380]
MMatl folds.
ZebraAss does not show [ 7h, Qs ] two pairs, sevens and fives.
ZebraAss wins 2605 chips from the main pot with

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Perhaps not, [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

Ummm. Yeah, I don't like your play here.

How about folding preflop?

How about folding on the flop?

How about force folding on the turn?

How about folding on the river?

Yugoslav

DyessMan89 · #3 03-01-2005, 08:25 PM

You call a raise out of position with a Q7o? I would have folded pre-flop, and I wouldnt have called the flop. I would have either folded or raised (If for some reason I called pre-flop) depending on my read of him.

microbet · #4 03-01-2005, 08:35 PM

I wouldn't have been there preflop. Were you largely just protecting your blind for future benefits?

His bet on the flop is pretty weak if he has the ace, with a flush draw being there. If you thought that was the case why not raise? Or were you thinking of this as a bluff-call?

If you were thinking of it as a bluff-call, you would have to bet the non-scary turn so he would think you were protecting a made hand, no?

When you check-raise on the river you can be fairly sure he doesn't have much of a hand, but it might be fairly easy for him to think you don't have much of a hand either.

Unparagoned · #5 03-01-2005, 08:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Table is very weak. Is this a -EV play?

[/ QUOTE ]

You've gotta be thinking more than just that. Did you have specific thoughts on the villian? Did you see him play previous hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course everyone is going to tell you that it's a bad play (and it might be...). I think what's important is this quote by yugo. There has to be more going on here. What hands might he be playing here? What makes you think he has something you can make him fold? There is a ton of contextual information you need in order to determine if this was a good play. Clealry, in this case, it was an excellent play. Would this play be profitable long-term applied generally, no. All I'm saying is that information here is incredibly important and I don't know if we can evaluate the play without quite a bit of it.

zaphod · #6 03-01-2005, 09:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ugh. Perhaps not, .

Ummm. Yeah, I don't like your play here.

How about folding preflop?

How about folding on the flop?

How about force folding on the turn?

How about folding on the river?

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, there seems to be a patteren here.

ZebraAss · #7 03-01-2005, 09:37 PM

He raised every single time it was folded to him.

He played in a hand with 2 other players in a min-raised pot when he was in LP. Flop was K 4 2. He checked with AA. One person bet, he called. Turn was another blank, he checked then called. River both checked.

The player to my left will call anything( called down an all in with 54248 board with A9 and won vs KQ) so if I had any opportunity to get into a pot with him I would take it.

I was going to raise on the flop or turn but I thought it would have looked too suspicious which is why I waited until the river. So yes it was a bluff-call.

I mean, he was absolutely awful. He made it to 3-handed. He min-raised a pot, I pushed with AJ he called with 10 J and lost. He was overly passive and had awful hand selection.

I was confident he was not going to call, whether that meaning he had a weak hand or he didn’t want to risk all his chips, i just thought he would fold and I was right.

(I won [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img])

Irieguy · #8 03-01-2005, 09:42 PM

I like everything about how you played this hand except the amount of your check-raise on the river. That's not how much somebody with a monster would bet. If I was your opponent, I would have called your check raise with pocket 10's or Jacks, and that's not what you want.

Otherwise, very nice.

Irieguy

Disclaimer: For everybody except Zebra, refer to Yugo's answer for guidance on how to play this pot.

The Yugoslavian · #9 03-01-2005, 09:49 PM

Well yeah, there certainly is a pattern. The problem is that the OP didn't give what I'd consider necessary information upfront to warrant not folding on many of these streets.

Yugoslav

The Yugoslavian · #10 03-01-2005, 09:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He raised every single time it was folded to him.

He played in a hand with 2 other players in a min-raised pot when he was in LP. Flop was K 4 2. He checked with AA. One person bet, he called. Turn was another blank, he checked then called. River both checked.

The player to my left will call anything( called down an all in with 54248 board with A9 and won vs KQ) so if I had any opportunity to get into a pot with him I would take it.

I was going to raise on the flop or turn but I thought it would have looked too suspicious which is why I waited until the river. So yes it was a bluff-call.

I mean, he was absolutely awful. He made it to 3-handed. He min-raised a pot, I pushed with AJ he called with 10 J and lost. He was overly passive and had awful hand selection.

I was confident he was not going to call, whether that meaning he had a weak hand or he didn’t want to risk all his chips, i just thought he would fold and I was right.

(I won [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img])

[/ QUOTE ]

This is necessary information to pose up front for this particular hand, IMO. Otherwise, you won't get the feedback on this hand that you may want in order to improve or even have a meaningful discussion of how you played it.

I like your line *much* better after reading this post.

Yugoslav