Situational play with middle pairs - playing the players?

MisterKing · #1 02-27-2005, 01:52 PM

I was stuck with what to do in a few spots here, but think in each case I stumbled onto the right move. I doubt this is a standard like with 88 in middle position, but given the reads I'm posting below, I wonder if you'd do the same.

Button is uber-LAG, VP$IP 53% and PFR% of 21+. I've seen him show down some trash, and chase badly at times. His AF-TOT is 2.0. UTG, on the other hand, is just as loose but much much less aggressive. He's seen 52% of flops, with PFR% of 3, and an AF-TOT of 1. Sample size for both players isn't great (120 hands), but probably enough to base some decisions on. Also important to note are the table dynamics: 31% average VP$IP, 4% PFR (passive!).

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, Button raises, 2 folds, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Initially, I limped here even without the requisite odds to hit a set figuring two things: 1.) given the number of players remaining to act, it is likely I'll have 5:1 or close to it by the time the pre-flop action is closed, and 2.) A raise is unlikely to get the hand heads-up or three way given the high propensity of my opponents to call with any two. When button raised it, I checked his PFR%, saw it to be clearly ridiculous, and called.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, Button bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, Button calls, UTG folds.

I'm pretty sure I have the best hand here, and figure Button will bet it for me, which he is kind enough to do. UTG hesitates and then calls, and I C/R. This drops UTG and gets me heads up with Button probably drawing to 6 outs.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button folds.

No way this can help Button, unles she has pocket 5's (86 and 63 seem extraordinarily unlikely), so I lead into him. He mucks and I take it.

My question for you is whether, given the reads I posted above, you'd play it the same (particularly PF and on the flop). Thanks!

jason_t · #2 02-27-2005, 01:55 PM

Yes. Nice hand.

27offsooot · #3 02-27-2005, 02:05 PM

I think I would iso raise PF

jason_t · #4 02-27-2005, 02:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would iso raise PF

[/ QUOTE ]

iso raise who?

spydog · #5 02-27-2005, 02:07 PM

Raise preflop.

Lead the flop. You have a vulnerable hand. Button will likely raise and knock UTG out. I think it's more reliable then the CR.

MisterKing · #6 02-27-2005, 02:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop.

Lead the flop. You have a vulnerable hand. Button will likely raise and knock UTG out. I think it's more reliable then the CR.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the input. In retrospect, yours is a much more appealing line to take. Any chance you're 3-betting the flop? I think the risk of an overcard hitting on the turn requires that a 3-bet at least get some consideration...

If you're calling button's probable flop raise (instead of 3-betting), what do you do when an A,K,Q or T hits the turn?

Carmine · #7 02-27-2005, 02:43 PM

I think you played it pretty good and your reasoning sound, but I agree with Spydog about the flop. Your best chance to get it HU is to bet out and have BB raise it making UTG face two.

Preflop I would normally raise but not if I feel I can't limit the field so I'm fine with that.

Carmine · #8 02-27-2005, 02:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop.

Lead the flop. You have a vulnerable hand. Button will likely raise and knock UTG out. I think it's more reliable then the CR.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the input. In retrospect, yours is a much more appealing line to take. Any chance you're 3-betting the flop? I think the risk of an overcard hitting on the turn requires that a 3-bet at least get some consideration...

If you're calling button's probable flop raise (instead of 3-betting), what do you do when an A,K,Q or T hits the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Once your goal of getting HU is achieved no need to 3-bet. Wait for a safe turn card and you will have much more equity to get agressive with. If a broadway falls it's hard at least for me. It's hard to assaign a hand range to these guys. I don't think we should go into the fetus position because of one overcard though.

spydog · #9 02-27-2005, 03:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]

If you're calling button's probable flop raise (instead of 3-betting), what do you do when an A,K,Q or T hits the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a decent hand out of position against a LAG. Do not get aggressive unless you improve. Let him drive the rest of the hand. You just want to get to showdown cheaply. Remember, LAGs can have good hands, too. And, they will abuse you with those hands when you get overaggressive with an average holding.

No way am I folding if a broadway card hits on the turn. I think it's best to just check-call the rest of the way.

MisterKing · #10 02-27-2005, 04:03 PM

makes sense -- thanks!