Stud H/L hand

[Vehn]

Here's a hand I played on Paradise Poker tonight that I thought was mildly interesting.

$2/$4, $.25 ante $1 bring in game with some decent players. I played heads-up with an OK, aggressive player for about 1/2 hour - the way the rake structure is its virtually free. I beat him pretty soundly other than losing a big pot when we both made flushes on 5th [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Anyways the game is now 5-handed.

3rd St:

P1 (X X) 6c
P2 (X X) 7s
P3 (X X) Qs
P4 (X X) 8d
ME(4c Ts) 4d

I bring it in for $1. P1 and P2 fold. P3 raises to $2. He is, from what I've seen briefly, erratic and maybe on tilt. P4 coldcalls. He is the player mentioned above. I call looking for my set or to catch a low card while P4 catches bad.


4th st:
P3 (X X) Qs 8s
P4 (X X) 8d 2d
ME (4c Ts) 4d 4h

Well.. crap. I check, P3 bets, and P4 predictably raises. I coldcall and P3 calls.

5th st:
P3 (X X) Qs 8s Jd
P4 (X X) 8d 2d Ac
ME (4c Ts) 4d 4h Kh

Looking better. I bet out now. P3 calls, P4 raises again meaning he's there. I just call and P3 calls.

6th st:
P3 (X X) Qs 8s Jd 9h
P4 (X X) 8d 2d Ac 8c
ME (4c Ts) 4d 4h Kh 7c

P4 is high and bets his low. I pop it now. P3 folds, whew. P4 reraises with his freeroll 1 outer and I call.

7th st:
P4 (X X) 8d 2d Ac 8c (X)
ME (4c Ts) 4d 4h Kh 7c (3c)

P4 bets and I call - he had the 6h 4s on 3rd and picked up the useless 7h on 7th.

Any thoughts on any street other than 7th? Is my call of $1 on 3rd terrible? I get the feeling it is.

[Andy B]

Hi Chris,

On third street, you have a clear fold. In this game, you're looking for two-way hands, and this ain't it. On the plus side, your call closes the action, and you appear to recognize that you need to hit your set in order to have any kind of hand. Also, since the bring-in is a half bet (as opposed to the more customary 1/3 or 1/4 bet), you have more incentive to call. You're hoping to catch a 4 on fourth street. This is about a 20:1 shot. Your pot odds aren't 20:1, and I don't think your implied odds are, either. The guy who raised with a Queen in the door likely has a pair higher than yours. The other guy likely has a three-card low. It is therefore probable that you are chasing for half the pot. This is a very bad thing.

Onward....you make your hand and don't bet it. This I'll never understand. I'd probably check-raise. You might get to jam with the low hand, and if the other guy can't bear to part with a pair of Queens, this is a sweet thing. I would bet out and hope that the Queen comes along for the ride. If he doesn't, at least your scoop chances have gone up.

Check-call on fourth and then bet out on fifth when you don't improve. This should confuse your opponents. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I think you should jam at this point. Who knows, the Queen might stay with you, and it's entirely possible that the other guy has made Aces and isn't thinking too hard about what you have.

Sixth street: we slow-play our hand until opponent's board becomes scary and then we pop it. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] OK, he probably doesn't have a Ten underneath, and you're right to raise, but why did you wait this long?

The other guy may have a one-out free roll, but a free roll's a free roll, and he could have a draw to a flush or a wheel.

I'm on my third Summit IPA. How'd I do?

BTW, I'm planning on playing in the stupid satellite on Sunday, and I'll probably be making my triumphant return to the stud/8 game on Wednesday. I don't think I'll be playing on Fridays for the time being.

[Vehn]

Hey Andy

My thinking for playing this unconventionally is that I wanted the queen to stick around, and if I jam after pairing my door card chances are I'll lose him, as I think he'll probably figure out what's going on [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] On 6th st his board has become scary enough for me to want to drop him right there. I felt I had a good enough line on the other player's play that he wouldn't jam here on 5th without a made low - with "just" a pair of aces & a 4 low I think he calls. I dunno, I thought it was a decently "tricky" way to play it, but the more I think about it the worse the call on 3rd is heh as 19 in 20 times I brick on 4th and drop. I just felt that if I put any real pressure on the Q on 4th or 5th he'd drop immediately.

I will be at the stupid satellite on Sunday as well - it will be my first live tournament of any kind. I've played many on PP (which should prepare me for CP's crapshoots..) and pokerstars and done decently though. I may go tomorrow, I may not, haven't decided yet. Friday's have been good to me recently, although last week I played for about 5 hours - and won $3, table was good as ever though. So I might take a break tomorrow and make my GF happy and just make a day of it on Sunday.

[AlanBostick]

Don't get fancy with weak players; it doesn't confuse them any more than solid play does.

[Andy B]

If you bet out on fourth, I don't think it necessarily looks like trips. You were the bring-in. Since you were half-way in, you could have called the completion with a wide range of hands. No one is showing that much. The Queen could have been on a steal. A third street bet doesn't scream, "I have trips," by any means.

I'll have to post the hand where I screamed (figuratively), "I have trips" and lost $935 some time.

Anyway, you would like the Queen in to be sure, but wouldn't you rather have him in for $8 than $2? Yeah, he might fold, but he might not. I've never played on line, but I know that players in Canterbury's $30/60 game will get stubborn with big pairs, and I know that they get stubborn with them in the $4/8 as well. The only way to find out if he'll stand some heat is to actually get in there and raise.

This illustrates another reason not to call on third. You make your hand but you can't extract any value from it because you're afraid of driving the other guy out. Don't be drawing to longshots if they're not going to get paid off.

I think a lot of players would raise with four low cards and a pair of Aces against the boards that were showing, especially since the guy with the open pair was showing no strength.

Assuming I play in the super, I'll probably go home afterwards and make my wife dinner. I'd probably have time for a beer or two in between, though....