Top 2 pair, any other way to play this?

Buck_65 · #1 02-17-2005, 03:17 AM

Sorry, no reads on villains. I was 7 tabling while on the phone and eating dinner as I was doing homework, so my attention was a bit scattered.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO (poster) checks, Button raises, 2 folds, UTG calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO 3-bets, Button calls, UTG calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls, CO 3-bets, Button folds, UTG caps, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (16.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, UTG calls.

River: (20.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, CO raises, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 26.25 BB

Is this a preflop raise from this position? I hate raising QJs from here, but perhaps it needs to be done. Anyone play this differently?

Sykes · #2 02-17-2005, 03:20 AM

Everything seems fine except for the river. Why do you suspect CO to have 33/A2/67 here?

3 bet the river.

Reef · #3 02-17-2005, 04:53 AM

I think a valid alternate line is calling the flop bet and waiting for the turn to raise.

RichHarden · #4 02-17-2005, 04:57 AM

edit: POST DELETED, I AM A MORON

Niediam · #5 02-17-2005, 04:59 AM

You are certainly correct as raising the flop doesn't protect hero's hand at all. Every draw under the sun would have odds to call two bets on the flop...

Buck_65 · #6 02-17-2005, 05:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You are certainly correct as raising the flop doesn't protect hero's hand at all. Every draw under the sun would have odds to call two bets on the flop...

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good point. Raising the turn is a significantly stronger play in retrospect. My thought process during the hand was as follows:

I wasn't sure what to put Button on, most likely AK/AQ/AJ/KQ. I was fairly certain CO had AA-QQ or possibly JJ/AKs based on the post-check, then reraise action.

I figured I was way ahead (or way behind to QQ/JJ), and since I'm vulnerable to being counterfeited, I wanted to get the most money in while I'm still best. Unfortunately, this thinking is flawed and I should have been waiting for the turn to get in a raise.

It turns out Button had the classic T4s and CO had AQ and MHIG. I won a big pot and made a new buddy all in one hand, it really doesn't get much better than that.

SCfuji · #7 02-17-2005, 05:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a preflop raise from this position?

[/ QUOTE ]

a raise will only chase out weaker hands, when you want them to call with 78s and similar hands. a limp is fine as your hand is strong enough to stand a raise at this level. another reason raising this hand UTG+1 would be that you could be 3-bet by a dominating hand and going heads up with that hand would make it quite difficult to play, especially out of position.

i play the rest of the streets the same.

Shillx · #8 02-17-2005, 05:37 AM

Nice hand. No don't raise preflop.

Brad

SlantNGo · #9 02-17-2005, 12:15 PM

I would raise the flop. This is a rainbow board, Hero's hand is very strong here. He doesn't need protection... raise right now for value.

bear187 · #10 02-17-2005, 12:25 PM

Raising for value is likely to fold out weak hands. You're better off going for overcalls, then reraising any raises.