An interesting bubble hand

adanthar · #1 02-13-2005, 05:43 PM

I took about a week off (food poisoning + a bad run playing over my head) and am just getting back into the 50's. This is an example of one of those concepts that I've been thinking about while I've been gone and that I've posted about a little earlier.

50+5, 4 handed, blinds at 200/400. I'm UTG with 1500 holding ATo. The big stack to my left with 4K is pretty loose; the SB to his left, with 3.5K, is a little bit better but still on the loose side. The BB, with 700 (300 after posting) is the typical loose early/weak late/terrible all the time player.

I minraise half my stack.

bigredlemon · #2 02-13-2005, 05:48 PM

Why not just push? You're pot committing yourself with a hand that's isn't strong enough to let others see a cheap flop with you, and hit their Q or K.

11t · #3 02-13-2005, 05:59 PM

I think you are just tryiing to make it look like you have a better hand than you do and you want action. However if you get called you have to push no matter what flop it is, therefore I push PF.

"I minraise half my stack."

If you cannot see the problem with this then I shall not point it out.

adanthar · #4 02-13-2005, 06:03 PM

I don't mind pot committing myself with this hand at all, but the real question is what the BB does.

parappa · #5 02-13-2005, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why not just push? You're pot committing yourself with a hand that's isn't strong enough to let others see a cheap flop with you, and hit their Q or K.

[/ QUOTE ]

The idea, I think, is that if Adanthar pushes and is called anywhere, the bb sees him all in and has an easy fold with lots and lots of hands he'd call with. If no one else calls, the BB has to call with a lot of hands. If the other 2 players call or push and the bb calls, Adanthar can think about dumping the hand, right?

I think it's clever but it's just beyond my grasp to figure out if it's better than pushing.

bigredlemon · #6 02-13-2005, 06:12 PM

Is this more of a long term thing?
Like, if he folds, you show AT, and min raise with crap next time?

Or, are you just bored?

adanthar · #7 02-13-2005, 06:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The idea, I think, is that if Adanthar pushes and is called anywhere, the bb sees him all in and has an easy fold with lots and lots of hands he'd call with. If no one else calls, the BB has to call with a lot of hands. If the other 2 players call or push and the bb calls, Adanthar can think about dumping the hand, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the BB calls after a big stack pushes, my job is done and calling behind him is really easy; it's if he folds that I have a problem. However, I think this happens less often than the I push -> button calls -> BB folds sequence (making it look like I want action is a nice bonus), so it's a net positive.

I think stack sizes and the fact that the players on my left don't think much are 100% of this hand.

parappa · #8 02-13-2005, 06:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The idea, I think, is that if Adanthar pushes and is called anywhere, the bb sees him all in and has an easy fold with lots and lots of hands he'd call with. If no one else calls, the BB has to call with a lot of hands. If the other 2 players call or push and the bb calls, Adanthar can think about dumping the hand, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the BB calls after a big stack pushes, my job is done and calling behind him is really easy; it's if he folds that I have a problem. However, I think this happens less often than the I push -> button calls -> BB folds sequence (making it look like I want action is a nice bonus), so it's a net positive.

I think stack sizes and the fact that the players on my left don't think much are 100% of this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if you miniraise, button pushes, and bb folds, do you also fold? I assume not, and that you're committed either way and that this is a ploy to increase the chances of keeping bb in.

adanthar · #9 02-13-2005, 06:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So, if you miniraise, button pushes, and bb folds, do you also fold? I assume not, and that you're committed either way and that this is a ploy to increase the chances of keeping bb in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Barring a really weird tell like him hitting the 'bet pot' button to reraise, 95% of the time, I'm fine with calling.

Really, the tricky part is if he just calls, BB folds, and the flop is rags or KQx or monotone or something. At that point I may be folding and playing for third. Fine - I'll be posting 400 of my 700 but the SB will post 2 of his 3. He has to call a raise and we'll probably play 3 way on the next hand.

But what's more important is that minraise -> call -> fold or minraise -> push -> fold probably happen less often combined than push -> call -> fold. With these exact stack sizes, push -> call -> fold sucks and you should avoid that as much as possible.

Irieguy · #10 02-13-2005, 07:35 PM

I like it.

Irieguy