what is the right ruling

[jayheaps]

from 10/20 last night.

4 handed on the flop. (I am not in the hand). BB checks, EP (very drunk) player apparently checks. LP players bets, BB raises. Then EP players yells "I never acted!!" and bets $10

LP player now trys to pull his bet back. BB claims he can't do this since his bet was acted upon.

What is the right call?

[tylerdurden]

Depends on what "apparently checks" means.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
Depends on what "apparently checks" means.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not in most card rooms.

After a bet and a call, the bet can't be taken back. Most card rooms have the rule that if action has taken place after a previous action, the first action is unretractable.

[tylerdurden]

Good point. I thought of that right after I posted. Still, though, "apparently" is a little vague.

[jayheaps]

no one actually saw him check and the original bettor just assumed it was his turn. Granted, this was a dealer mistake. The question is how it should be resolved.

[steamboatin]

There is an angle shooter at Caesar's In that will make a tiny little tap on the table with one finger and if everyone checks around, just before the button acts, He will yell, I haven't acted yet and bet.

The first time he did this I was stuck a little and it really made me angry. I was cussing that angle shooting SOB under my breath untill I figured out he was an ATM. I won't fall for that trick again if he is on my right, but I decided he could shoot all the angles he wants as long as he continues to donate.

[cardcounter0]

Tell the drunk, "yes, sir! and now you need $10 more to call the BB's raise, or you can re-raise." If drunk doesn't want to call the raise then he can pull the $10 back.

And LP needs to get a grip, he can't pull his bet back, and has a choice of calling the raise or re-raising.

[Randy_Refeld]

You have an obligation to protect your action. If you do not protect your action you may lose your action.

Randy Refeld

[Al_Capone_Junior]

If there is "significant action" following a mistake, it may be necessary to continue the hand as if the error had not occurred.

However, what is significant action?

A quote from Robert's rules of poker, by Bob Ciaffone...

11. To retain the right to act, a player must stop the action by calling “time” (or an equivalent word). Failure to stop the action before three or more players have acted behind you may cause you to lose the right to act. You cannot forfeit your right to act if any player in front of you has not acted, only if you fail to act when it legally becomes your turn. Therefore, if you wait for someone whose turn comes before you, and three or more players act behind you, this still does not hinder your right to act.

http://www.lasvegasvegas.com/poker/chapter3.php

OK, so the bold part addresses the drunk guy's right to protect his action. Since three or more players have not acted behind him, he should theoretically still be allowed to protect his right to act. However...

The italics show that you can forfeit your right to act if you fail to act when it becomes your turn.

BUT... (and this is my favorite rule...)

1. Management reserves the right to make decisions in the spirit of fairness, even if a strict interpretation of the rules may indicate a different ruling.

It's only four handed in the first place, and the drunk guy's drunken state is clearly the root of the problem. He should have been paying more attention to the game and less to his jack and coke.

LP absolutely cannot get his bet back. LP should have made sure that EP HAD actually checked before he bet (I realize EP's drunken state may have been the root of the problem, but you gotta make sure that even a drunk has acted before you act yourself).

Randy Refeld is also correct here in that a player must protect their action (same category as protect your hand). The drunk should have raised his objection sooner.

I leave LP's bet and BB's raise in the pot and rule that it's now EP's turn to either call the $20, raise, or fold.

al