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#1
02-23-2005, 10:16 PM
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Some physical tells, or my imagination?
I’ve just started playing live, and have noticed some things others are doing, and wanted to see what people thought. Add your own to the list, and disagree with me if u like:
On the river, if your opponent asks you how much you have behind, he’s usually not bluffing. If a player just won a big pot and is stacking chips, but stops to call/raise in a hand, he’s not usually bluffing Guys who have their own “thing they put over their chips so the dealer doesn’t take their cards”, and who are riffling chips one-handed are generally better than average players. People who grab chips, play with them a bit, then check, have reasonable hands but don’t know whether they are ahead or behind. Most people play looser, bet more when the aggressor, and call more when bet into than they should. Guys who say things like, “you shouldn’t call me, you’ll be sorry”, “ or “Hmm, I have a good hand here” generally have good but not great hands. They can handle continuing in the hand, but are ok if you fold too. People who make sudden small body movements when turn or river cards come either really like or really don’t like their hands. Usually don’t like, unless they start touching chips. Old guys tend to be cranky --Greg 
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#2
02-24-2005, 12:28 AM
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Re: Some physical tells, or my imagination?
I pretty much disagree with you accross the board:
1 - could go either way... 10- dead on. [ QUOTE ] On the river, if your opponent asks you how much you have behind, he’s usually not bluffing. [/ QUOTE ] 1, this is very unreliable. Things that make a big difference are if opp is closing the betting, if he has you covered, if you are seen as weak tight... [ QUOTE ] If a player just won a big pot and is stacking chips, but stops to call/raise in a hand, he’s not usually bluffing [/ QUOTE ] 1, this is opponent dependent but many people know that Doyle says to 'play the rush' and they do so. [ QUOTE ] Guys who have their own “thing they put over their chips so the dealer doesn’t take their cards”, and who are riffling chips one-handed are generally better than average players. [/ QUOTE ] 9 out of 10 players in the 1-2 NL game at Turning Stone do this... and they are not good. All this tells you is that they have played before or watched poker on TV. [ QUOTE ] People who grab chips, play with them a bit, then check, have reasonable hands but don’t know whether they are ahead or behind. [/ QUOTE ] 7.5, this one is relatively accurate. Grabbing their chips looks strong and is intended to induce a check behind... strong always means weak - except for when your opponent wants you to think that and thus strong actually means strong. Never the less, most people bet when they are strong (I am assuming this is heads up on the river with opponent 1st to act?) therefore this is pretty accurate. [ QUOTE ] Most people play looser, bet more when the aggressor, and call more when bet into than they should. [/ QUOTE ] 10. 95% of poker players are terrible. 73% of statistics are made up. [ QUOTE ] Guys who say things like, “you shouldn’t call me, you’ll be sorry”, “ or “Hmm, I have a good hand here” generally have good but not great hands. They can handle continuing in the hand, but are ok if you fold too. [/ QUOTE ] 2, when a player who is usually silent comments about the strength of his hand he usually is really strong. Players think that you will assume that they are lying and thus they get 'added value,' they win the pot AND they get to say 'I told you so.' "If you call, it gonna be all-over baby" (Scotty Nguyen to opponent on last hand of WSOP, he had the nuts) [ QUOTE ] People who make sudden small body movements when turn or river cards come either really like or really don’t like their hands. Usually don’t like, unless they start touching chips. [/ QUOTE ] I would say you are wrong again. People often sit up when a flush card falls if they have a set and are nervous that they are now beat or if they just hit the nuts, they are perking up because the card was interesting to them. From my experience I would say that more often than not when a player who is relaxing all of a sudden sits up and starts paying attention he has a big hand or big draw, I would play this very cautiously. This is exactly what you should be looking for however. When someone gives a reaction that they do not normally give, that is to say when someone acts differently from their norm, then there is information to be had. Looking for standard tells is something that is overrated, what is important is seeing when someone is doing something different from their norm (then try to reconstruct the action and figure out what they are doing what they are.) This is a prime reason why there is a lot of value in paying attention when you are not in a hand. Although there really isn't a standard set of tells (despite what Mike Caro wants you to think) players DO often exhibit the same expressions and have the same actions when they are strong and have different ones when weak or scared (strong but unsure) the key is to figure out what each player does in these situations. Yes, some tells will be seen in multiple players, I just want to stress that finding standard tells isn't nearly as important as seeing someone do something in a way that they have done before... [ QUOTE ] Old guys tend to be cranky [/ QUOTE ] 8, this one is pretty accurate... They also are tighter than normal. Unless, of course, they are loose.
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#4
03-01-2005, 06:18 PM
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Re: Some physical tells, or my imagination?
Hi G,
This is based from my experience, which is all live play. On the river, if your opponent asks you how much you have behind, he’s usually not bluffing. True If a player just won a big pot and is stacking chips, but stops to call/raise in a hand, he’s not usually bluffing Irrelevant Guys who have their own “thing they put over their chips so the dealer doesn’t take their cards”, and who are riffling chips one-handed are generally better than average players. Irrelevant People who grab chips, play with them a bit, then check, have reasonable hands but don’t know whether they are ahead or behind. It is most likely true that they do not know if they are behind or not, but in my experience, ones that constantly check their hole cards are not experienced players. Most people play looser, bet more when the aggressor, and call more when bet into than they should. This is primarily why games are so profitable, especially at low limits. Guys who say things like, “you shouldn’t call me, you’ll be sorry”, “ or “Hmm, I have a good hand here” generally have good but not great hands. They can handle continuing in the hand, but are ok if you fold too. Most players that talk that way seem to have neither monster hands nor weak hands. People who make sudden small body movements when turn or river cards come either really like or really don’t like their hands. Usually don’t like, unless they start touching chips. That is too general of a statement. The tell will depend on the player, if there is one at all. Old guys tend to be cranky Undoubtedly
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#5
03-01-2005, 06:27 PM
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Re: Some physical tells, or my imagination?
[ QUOTE ]
People who grab chips, play with them a bit, then check, have reasonable hands but don’t know whether they are ahead or behind. [/ QUOTE ] nice.
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#8
03-02-2005, 03:03 AM
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Re: Some physical tells, or my imagination?
Your first three tells are products of your imagination, and are not tells. Especially the one about rifling chips and using protectors. Many regulars do this, and remember, most regulars suck.
[ QUOTE ] People who grab chips, play with them a bit, then check, have reasonable hands but don’t know whether they are ahead or behind. [/ QUOTE ] This is generally done to induce their opponent to check, especially HU on the river in a limit game. A common practice. It means they want to show-down for free, and you should value bet them with something like TPTK. This actually is a tell that can be profitable to exploit. [ QUOTE ] Most people play looser, bet more when the aggressor, and call more when bet into than they should. [/ QUOTE ] Also known as fish. This is why poker is great, because most people suck at it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. [ QUOTE ] People who make sudden small body movements when turn or river cards come either really like or really don’t like their hands. Usually don’t like, unless they start touching chips. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed with what Cornell Fiji said. This is very player dependent, but VERY important. Some players shoot up when they nail their two pair, flush, whatever. Others show negative body language (such as a slouch) when they miss. By paying attention on every hand, you pick these things up. Remember, it's player dependent. Worth repeating. It's player dependent, and what one player does as a tell is only a tell for them. [ QUOTE ] 95% of poker players are terrible. 73% of statistics are made up. [/ QUOTE ] Come on Fiji. We all know that 57.2% of statistics are made up on the spot. This is common knowledge. [ QUOTE ] In my experience, ones that constantly check their hole cards are not experienced players. [/ QUOTE ] Onegymrat, not sure where you got that from. I know plenty of experienced, good players who check their hole cards a lot. I'm one of them. Part of the reason is because Caro says that checking your hole cards after you bet is a bluff. Guess what I do when I value bet the nuts.
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#9
03-02-2005, 03:08 AM
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Re: Some physical tells, or my imagination?
[ QUOTE ]
Onegymrat, not sure where you got that from. I know plenty of experienced, good players who check their hole cards a lot. I'm one of them. [/ QUOTE ] Remember, I'm a schoolyard bully. I only pick on the weak. At the tables which I select to play, the weak check their cards constantly. This is exactly why I would not play at your table. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#10
03-02-2005, 03:09 AM
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Re: Some physical tells, or my imagination?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 95% of poker players are terrible. 73% of statistics are made up. [/ QUOTE ] Come on Fiji. We all know that 57.2% of statistics are made up on the spot. This is common knowledge. [/ QUOTE ] Every math nerd finds humor in this joke, but I wonder if there's actually been a study on this. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] People seem to love numbers with what seem to be "facts"--just look at the "reliability" ratings in Caro's Book of Poker Tells. Regards, Wally
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