Limping with JJ early

Hawkeye27 · #1 01-27-2005, 10:23 AM

Having trouble figuring out how to play upper middle pairs like 10's, J's, and Q's early in the tourney. Should I limp and bet if I flop an overpair. Or should I raise 3-4x the BB and try to push out the overcards? On this hand should I have overbet the pot on the flop, or is it just impossible to make a flush draw lay down without overcommiting yourself?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+1 (t775)
UTG+2 (t1690)
MP1 (t775)
MP2 (t745)
MP3 (t740)
CO (t130)
Hero (t760)
SB (t865)
BB (t765)
UTG (t755)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t15, 5 folds, Hero calls t15, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t60) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets t60, SB calls t60, BB folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (t180) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t325, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t505

zaphod · #2 01-27-2005, 11:36 AM

I think you played this hand fine.

I usually always limp with jj and down in the early levels. QQ is a raising hand for me.

PE101 · #3 01-27-2005, 01:24 PM

I think I would have come in with a small raise (~3BB) before the flop. You had good position and no show of strength.

The pair on the board was a bit troubling, but no one bet it.

The king on the river is obviously a problem for you. It wasn't that big of a bet on the river - I'd have called.

schwza · #4 01-27-2005, 01:27 PM

i personally like raising JJ and limping 99 (TT depends). if you have players who will limp and then call a raise with A9o (and you do), i think you're passing up too much value by limping with JJ.

Phil Van Sexton · #5 01-27-2005, 01:47 PM

- There is only 1 limper.
- You have the 5th best hand in holdem.
- Your hand is vulnerable to overcards.
- You are on the button.

Calling is terrible. Just raise to 50 and eliminate the blinds. Instead, you let the SB and BB see the flop virtually for free.

In this spot, I'd probably raise even if I had 77.

I feel like I already responded to this post two days ago.

ColdestCall · #6 01-27-2005, 02:22 PM

Hawk, your question defies an easy answer, because the way you play medium pockets early in an SNG is very dependent upon your position and the table you are sitting at. For example, you call on the Button here was terrible, but only because you were on the button. You have a strong hand versus one limper. You MUST RAISE here to either drive the blinds out or define their hands (and hopefully make them put in more money with weak hand). Taking down the $50 that is on the table would not be a bad result here. As things stand, when the flop comes you have absolutely no idea where you stand, and the 66 out there is just as scary as the 3 flush on the turn because BB and SB could have literally anything. An additional consideration is that raising will give you a much better chance to win a big pot if you do hit a set, but that is not as important as the other points.

Now, if you were UTG+1, a call would be just fine. You could even call a small raise (3BB) after your limp if you thought your call would close the action, hoping to win a big pot if you hit a set. You dont really want to raise here, because you are going to get shut out by a reraise (unless you are planning on putting a ton of dough in the pot pre-flop with JJ early in an SNG, which I strongly advise against). So this demonstrates the importance of position. In middle position, BTW, you can call or raise depending on how close to the button you are and how aggressive the table is - basically, be more inclined to raise when you dont think you are going to get played back at.

Which brings up the table....Some tables are passive, some are filled with raising maniacs. If you are at a table with the latter, very often you should just fold these pairs from EP. If every pot is getting raised and re-raised pre-flop, you just dont need to go to war with these pairs early. Stick em in the muck and let the maniacs blow each other up. If pots aren't getting raised all that often, you can be more liberal about limping with small pairs (I just realized I've been talking about JJ the whole time. I am very seldom raising 99 and 10-10 real early in the tournament, although on the button in this situation I probably would have. I am also folding them more often than JJ, because it's a lot harder to have an overpair with 9,9, and also because when I see those two Johnnies staring back at me I have a tough time letting them go....often to my detriment)

I could probably keep going, but this is getting long. Hope it was helpful.