QQ multiway with overcard on flop

Wario · #1 01-24-2005, 06:57 AM

How would you have played this? Feel free to criticise any street.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

River: (8.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

Thanks.

Nick Royale · #2 01-24-2005, 08:21 AM

I don't like calling the flop, but with this pot I guess I'm stuck. If you're planning to fold the turn UI, I like it.

You're probably toast at the river, but closing the action in a 11 BB pot can not be bad given that the turn was checked through.

zuluking · #3 01-24-2005, 08:24 AM

Raise the flop, if re-raised, call and call it down. If just called, bet out on the turn when he checks.

pointcount · #4 01-24-2005, 08:35 AM

BB sure looks like he's going for a flush draw on the flop and turn maybe bluffing the river? I raise this flop and bet the turn. At least if you are 3-bet and bet into on the turn you can fold quite confidently.

Nick Royale · #5 01-24-2005, 08:36 AM

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Raise the flop, if re-raised, call and call it down. If just called, bet out on the turn when he checks.

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Wow! That's aggressive. To aggressive IMO. With a bet and 3 calls and an ace on the board I would rather fold than raise.

zuluking · #6 01-24-2005, 08:37 AM

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Wow! That's aggressive. To aggressive IMO. With a bet and 3 calls and an ace on the board I would rather fold than raise.

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Thinking like that is weak/tight and will lose you money longterm.

Nick Royale · #7 01-24-2005, 08:41 AM

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Thinking like that is weak/tight and will lose you money longterm.

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I guess it's leak to fill for me. Definately a leak I wouldn't discovered by myself...

zuluking · #8 01-24-2005, 08:45 AM

Think of it this way:

What is more likely? That one of them has an ace or not? 3 aces left in the deck spread between 3 players. More often than not, they will NOT have an ace, so betting is called for.

moot · #9 01-24-2005, 09:10 AM

That's assuming no hand discretion whatsoever. Poor low limit players are much more likely to play a hand if it has an A in it than not. They are also likely to call down when they hit their Ax hand.

If you can't detach yourself from the hand then I raise the flop. If reraised I call and then fold the turn unimproved. If I'm smooth called it's likely to be checked to me on the turn, at which point I probably bet and then let the river get checked down if I feel strongly that I'm beat by a weak ace that won't fold. If bet into on the turn after my raise on the flop, I fold unimproved.

Carmine · #10 01-24-2005, 09:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Think of it this way:

What is more likely? That one of them has an ace or not? 3 aces left in the deck spread between 3 players. More often than not, they will NOT have an ace, so betting is called for.

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll there are 5 other players on the flop, 4 on the latter streets. I think I will be shown an Ace 8/10 times. I think the turn getting checked through means the Ace(s) are weak and can't get agressive with so many callers. When BB bets out on the river he feels his A is now good.

I can't help but wonder, as long as the table is not full of maniacs, if it would be +EV in the long run to fold this on the flop everytime against five players and an Ace on the flop. I know, I know, weak. But think of all the times we call down to the river or fold the turn UI. Those bets have got to be adding up big time. Okay, how many lashes for even thinking such a thought??