routine fold? full house on turn

[Guy McSucker]

Stars $3/6 6-max.

One limper, SB completes, I check K-2 offsuit in the BB. Both opponents are okay, a little too loose and not aggressive enough.

Flop: 8 2 2 rainbow. SB bets, I call, limper raises, SB calls, I call.

Turn: 8. SB bets, I fold.

How did I do?

Guy.

[imitation]

Raise the flop....slowplaying is so early 90s.

I wouldn't fold the turn, i'd probably raise and see what happened. I think limper has a PP and SB might have a 2, PP, 8, A-high in that order.

[ToneLoc]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop....slowplaying is so early 90s.

I wouldn't fold the turn, i'd probably raise and see what happened. I think limper has a PP and SB might have a 2, PP, 8, A-high in that order.

[/ QUOTE ]

I kind of like the slowplay, but on the flop either calling or raising will do i guess.

I have to disagree on the turn though. If you raise it, the MP will get the message and throwh a big PP away. Also you will be raised by the SB if he holds an 8.
I think it is much better to call down, as you might get extra bets form the MP in the process.

[wahooriver]

Let's use the Daniel Negreanu or Dan Harrington method to analyze this situation.

[ QUOTE ]
One limper, SB completes, I check K-2 offsuit in the BB. Both opponents are okay, a little too loose and not aggressive enough.

Flop: 8 2 2 rainbow. SB bets, I call, limper raises, SB calls, I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

What could SB and limper have and make these plays on Stars 3/6?

Certainly many would bet this with 2 high cards and raise with a pocket pair. I am likely to raise with 9s or higher (assuming that I did not raise preflop). Part of the decision making here depends on how much you know about limpers preflop aggression. If limper is passive preflop, then this could represent a pocket pair. I've had Poker Stars players limp with AA (and this has happened more than once). Certainly many players will limp with QQ, JJ, TT and then get aggressive after a flop like this.

Limper could have a 2 and be raising on that basis.

SB could be betting on almost anything - unless you know that SB is very tight (but then what hand with an 8 would allow him to complete).

I probably reraise the flop - for information.

I probably call the turn assuming that the pot odds are there. At this point there are 5 BB in the pot (after rake estimate). Is there at least a 20% chance that SB does not have an 8? I believe so - therefore I call. I would not raise because I believe that there is a significant chance that he does have an 8.

This is really an exercise in Bayesian logic. Everything depends on your estimate of what would lead to SB betting.



I understand your fears here

[MAxx]

raise flop. i assume that would give you control on turn and then you would lead.... and see how they react. i would envision myself calling down turn raise, unless opponents started going nuts.

[Gazza]

[ QUOTE ]
One limper, SB completes, I check K-2 offsuit in the BB. Both opponents are okay, a little too loose and not aggressive enough.

Flop: 8 2 2 rainbow. SB bets, I call, limper raises, SB calls, I call.


I probably reraise the flop - for information.


[/ QUOTE ] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What do you want information for? I think it's safe to assume that we are way ahead the vast majority of the time here and to put them on anything from an 8, pocket pair or just overcard(s). I don't like calling the initial flop bet and then re-raising as that lets the cat out of the bag. Either attack straight away or wait for the turn.
The turn card is horrible forcing us to screech to a halt before we even got going. I call down if it's just one bet on each street. As somebody said no need to raise to drive out worse hands.

Gazza