77, nobody wants to bet

imported_AlphaGun · #1 01-06-2005, 12:35 AM

I find this situation comes up a lot, where I have a low pocket pair and it gets checked to me on the flop. I will usually bet, but as soon as I get a caller I back off.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG (poster) checks, MP1 folds, Hero calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (2.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (2.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 2.75 BB

1) Was betting the flop a good play here? Perhaps I should just check and hope a 7 comes up with such a small pot.
2) Should I bet the turn?

I don't think betting the river is a good play as I will probably only get called by a better hand and the pot is tiny, but perhaps I am wrong.

pointcount · #2 01-06-2005, 12:41 AM

Fold this flop.

check/fold this turn
check/fold this river.

You have 3rd best pair and are drawing to 2 outs (the 2 remaining 7's) meaning to even call a bet on the flop you need the pot to be offering you 1:22 (you are being offered 1:3.5). In short 77 is a fold on many flops, especially this one.

Entity · #3 01-06-2005, 12:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold this flop.

check/fold this turn
check/fold this river.

You have 3rd best pair and are drawing to 2 outs (the 2 remaining 7's) meaning to even call a bet on the flop you need the pot to be offering you 1:22 (you are being offered 1:3.5). In short 77 is a fold on many flops, especially this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

So...you're advocating...open-folding? Bah. No one bet into hero.

I like your play of the whole hand.

pokerjunky · #4 01-06-2005, 12:45 AM

I'm in favor of betting the turn here too since he could be calling the flop with just about anything, but checking through on the river is a good play IMO.

btspider · #5 01-06-2005, 12:45 AM

are you folding to a river bet after the turn check.. small pot.. so i guess so. i'm tempted to bet the turn here, but some large % of the time your opponent folds, you would have shown the best hand down anyway.

ClaytonN · #6 01-06-2005, 12:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold this flop.

check/fold this turn
check/fold this river.

You have 3rd best pair and are drawing to 2 outs (the 2 remaining 7's) meaning to even call a bet on the flop you need the pot to be offering you 1:22 (you are being offered 1:3.5). In short 77 is a fold on many flops, especially this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you high? Nobody bet but hero.

This is a weak/tight strategy that is hugely unprofitable in PP. Just because the 77 didn't connect doesn't mean his hand isn't best. For crying out loud, his two opponents are a poster and a BB.

Do not follow the advice of "No set, no bet" all the time. In some games it is appropriate, but with proper reads when there are a smaller amount of players to a flop, a medium pair can hold up as a winner with overcards for sure. You just need to know when the time is right.

THIS IS A RIGHT TIME.

______

I bet the flop, given that your two opponents are the BB and the poster. If they didn't invest any more money PF and checked on the flop, you are most likely ahead. Betting here gives you information, and a majority of the time you'll take the pot right there.

This situation is read-dependant, but it looks like you're ahead of BB most of the time when he calls you on the flop. Only time he could have you beat, realistically, is if he had Kx and was too afraid to bet it on a board with an ace.

I check it down and expect to take it down.

JerseyTom · #7 01-06-2005, 12:53 AM

I think betting the flop is fine and I'd do the same. You have a poster UTG with essentially a random hand and a BB who checked his option after 2 limpers.

After BB calls this rainbow, relatively drawless flop, I wonder if maybe he has a weak K (or something even crappier like a 3). If I think I can get him to fold it (any read? pot odds dictate he needs to fold 27% of the time or more for this to be right), I may take another shot on the turn (someone above mentioned that most of the hands that fold to a turn bet are hands that you'd beat at showdown anyway... very good point), but this is a potentially expensive way to try to win a small pot so checking is not awful here (and I might lean more that way if he's a caller).

If he calls a turn bet, I'm check/folding a non-7 on the river.

Aaron W. · #8 01-06-2005, 12:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1) Was betting the flop a good play here? Perhaps I should just check and hope a 7 comes up with such a small pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, take a stab at it. It's a short handed pot, you've got position, and you've got a pair. Granted, there are overcards, but there's also weakness shown. Just because you don't have the ace or king, it doesn't mean that they know it. Many many many players will auto-fold their junk hands when both an ace and king show up when they don't have either.

[ QUOTE ]
2) Should I bet the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Close call either way. Against an unknown, I'd check behind, but I'm not as agressive as some here. The flop bet was a try for the pot, and it failed. Why throw more money at it?

ClaytonN · #9 01-06-2005, 12:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I may take another shot on the turn, but this is a potentially expensive way to try to win a small pot so checking is not awful here (and I might lean more that way if he's a caller).

If he calls a turn bet, I'm check/folding a non-7 on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why I don't bet the turn. Your opponent could be a weak calling station, and if he calls on the turn you're probably behind. It's a BB you could have preserved.

In any case, you'll get to see what he shows or mucks and gain information.

ClaytonN · #10 01-06-2005, 12:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The flop bet was a try for the pot, and it failed. Why throw more money at it?

[/ QUOTE ]

More importantly, why double your investment into the entire pot? The bet doubles on the turn and river, and with zero information on my opponent I don't want to invest 2 more SB's to risk stealing a pot I could have just as easily taken down on the river for free.

Betting the turn just can't be +EV in my opinion, because if he calls you, you're going to lose at least 4 SB's a majority of the time, and if he doesn't call you you'll only win two.

Why take such a -EV risk without a read?