Ethics question... fire out that extra raise? (crosspost from SSLHE)

[dtbog]

Setting: 3/6 Hold'em at Turning Stone. I sit down while waiting for my NL seat, and I instantly remember why 3/6 at Turning Stone is so profitable. No one else at the table seems to know anything about poker, except for maybe one other college kid to my right.

I go half an orbit without playing a hand, and in this time, an old lady sits down across from me. She clearly doesn't know what's going on, and as her husband hands her a portrait of Benjamin Franklin from out of his wallet, I can see the eyes of my table-mates lighting up.

Anyway, I'm involved in her second hand at the table, as I raise preflop with my AK and get two callers, one of which is this woman (who I'm not sure knew that she could fold).

Flop comes AJ8. She bets out, clearly confused. I raise (simply for the purpose of forcing out the third player in the pot), button folds, old woman calls.

Turn comes J. I'm no expert hand reader, but as the woman throws out her $6 bet I know she didn't make any sort of hand. I contemplate raising, but consider that I have to live with myself at night. I call.

River comes 8. OK, so she's probably playing the board at this point, and I have top 2. She bets out again. I again realize that getting another $6 out of her will not make me a better person. I call.

I table my aces and jacks, king kicker. She tables her 79o, for... the board. The dealer instructs her that "check" means that you pass the action to the next player without betting. She seems appreciative of the new advice.

My question: how many of you put in the raises? Note that we're assuming that you know she doesn't have a jack or an eight.. because, well, we do know. It's certainly a negative EV play to call behind on the river, say.... but do you care about the fact that this lady obviously doesn't know how to play poker?

Personally, I don't see any need to take her money... but then again, I'm not a pro who is counting every bet, and I'm not even a regular player at this 3/6 game. What do you pros think? If you're couting on BB/hr from this table, do you feel better about taking her money?

Opinions welcome.

-DB

[Escape]

I would. Its her own fault is she doesn't know how to play.

[axioma]

i would have raised. only for friends will i consider calling when i know i have them beat.

[jtr]

DT, you're a good person. Seriously. But I would have raised.

Who knows with these things? Maybe one time in ten she is Doyle Brunson's mother and has the J, waiting to 3-bet you on the end.

[tomb1]

IMO you need to play right but always play fair. That means... play the game the way you think it should be played, even if the opponent isn't playing correctly. You teach and reinforce your skills by playing right all the time. If you let your emotions change your play, that's like going on tilt but in the opposite direction. That's not a good thing.

As long as it's a fair game, then let the chips and cards fall as they may. (Plus you never know whther a smarter player at the table may be watching you, and take advantage in the next hand!)

The more likely result of your play in this situation would have been for her to pull something out of her a** on the river and beat you! That happens, and then you'd have paid dearly for your decision, plus complain about the bad beat all the way home.

So ethics and integrity are important, but the integrity of your game skills is most important.

Just my 2BB worth.

- tomb

[jjb108]

Let's put another level on this. Instead of a sweet old lady, its a college kid who gets a $100 from his Dad. All else the same.

Either way, this is a game played for money. However, I think I check to the older woman and raise the snot out of the college kid.

[Falker11]

The correct move is to fold preflop if u dont want to take her money. If not raise! You cost yourself 12 bucks which is 48 pull-tabs bro!
Falker

[Smasharoo]

Silly post, of course you raise.

If they wheeled a blind deaf mute autistic holocaust survivor in and he had a post it on his forehead that said "I bet" and you knew it was his last $6, you should still raise.

When they start forcing people to play poker with you for money and kill them when they lose, then start worrying about the ethics of it.

[ktdid]

What a scenario from smasharoo...wow....I have to agree though, you bet and raise when called for. I do have a tinge of guilt when I see somebody rebuy several times and then beat them out of a big pot so they have to rebuy again, but I still would rather WIN!!

[Mike]

Not being a pro....

Cooling your heels playing LL and leaving a few bets behind doesn't mean anything to your NL bankroll. I would probably do what you did in your situation too. I was never much for mugging old people in dark alleys.

Point to remember though, whether you take her money or you take the money from someone who takes it from her, either way she is going to lose it.

If I were playing only in this game, I would take it as fast as I could. Getting it from her is much easier than getting it from another player's stack and a few bets added to the stock pile mean much more at LL.