$200 SNG - I got reamed for this river bet - was it that bad?

[UMTerp]

I'm doing this from memory, so numbers may not be exactly right, but the gist of the hand is.

$210+$15 Turbo SNG on Stars. 25-50 level, 8 players left. One player is around ~3000, the rest (including myself and my opponent in this hand) are about ~1500.

I'm on the button with TT (suits not important). Two limpers, I raise to 200, blinds fold, first limper folds, second limper (Hassan) calls.

Flop (525 in pot) K53r. Hassan bets 200, I call.

Turn (925 in pot, both of our stacks ~1100) 6. Check-check.

River K. He bets 50, I raise to 300.

He called, tabled 99, and told me for about 5 minutes how dumb the river bet was. FWIW, if he had checked, I'd have checked behind. I thought his blocking bet screamed that he wanted a cheap showdown though, and I was fairly certain I was ahead given his bet. That bet told be he had showdown potential, but wanted to see it for free (50 chips). I thought I could get a little more value out of the hand too. Obviously, I don't want to be reraised here, but I think I'd have called an all-in reraise on the river.

Was is that bad? Should I have just taken the cheap showdown? I think most players would just call the 50 without thinking. The only hands I really could imagine him having that would call the 300 that I'd lose to are JJ and KQs. On the other hand, 77-99 seemed very plausible, or even something like 56s, 67s, etc.

Genius play [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] or too reckless?

[pooh74]

u already know the answer to this one...good play...he is just being a baby and has a big mouth...

BTW, does he have a daarth vader avatar? Think ive played w/ before

[UMTerp]

Yeah, that's the one.

And I don't think it's that clear-cut. The river play is pretty debatable IMO.

[UMTerp]

Also, anyone see a better line from start to finish? I think I'd have lost him with a turn bet. Agree?

[alexbrew]

I think he's carried away by "never bet the river if you're only going to be called by a better hand". -- But he called!

I think you played it well. You made a read, and you trusted your read to be correct. By trusting a correct read you executed "The Theory of Poker". "... Every time you play your hand the same way you would have played it if you could see all their cards, they lose."

That's what you did. He lost chips. He was mad over it.

[raptor517]

a questionable thing could happen with a river raise that small. he could come all in over the top. then what do you do? however, i do like the play of the hand, as i think u extracted a good amount from him. he played the hand very poorly, but i think u did a good job. i DO like the river raise, but if he comes over the top all in u have to fold, which is sometimes reason enough to just call.

[UMTerp]

How should he have played his hand (ignoring preflop which is debtable, but OK)? I don't think his line was terrible either. If he'd have bet 150 or 200 on the river, he'd have probably lost a few less chips. I think check-fold is a pretty weak line on the flop for 99 here too.

[UMTerp]

[ QUOTE ]
a questionable thing could happen with a river raise that small. he could come all in over the top. then what do you do? however, i do like the play of the hand, as i think u extracted a good amount from him. he played the hand very poorly, but i think u did a good job. i DO like the river raise, but if he comes over the top all in u have to fold, which is sometimes reason enough to just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's obviously the debatable part about the bet, but I think I'd have begrudgingly called an all-in reraise on the river. Players in the $200 are very capable of making that move with a hand worse than TT there.

[pooh74]

I personally, being a weak river player, (NO Notes TERp!!!! I know where you hang out too!!) wouldve cold called...you, however, IMO made a good play because as was pointed out, you had a read and stuck to it...he's mad because he tried to rep a bigger hand by throwing out the minimum to show he was "strong" by appearing "weak"....reverse reverse psychology. It didnt work on you, he felt that his play was so clever that it was lost on you and that's why he lost more chips and hence his frustration. FWIW, he crtiques play CONSTANTLY at the table...I was watching a 1000+50 SNG on stars and he wouldnt shutup...

anyhoo, dont be so hard on yourself...

[Big Limpin']

[ QUOTE ]
a questionable thing could happen with a river raise that small. he could come all in over the top. then what do you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think thats mostly what the guy was upset about, or, i mean, not really upset, but giving hero a lecture about...

Exactly waht you said man, if he comes back over at you (and being a $200+15, i can give him credit for being able to outplay anybody on a given hand), well, you are now going to put all your stack in? give up the hand?

I like the play of how this hand went, on all streets except river. Personally, i would be happy just calling his "block-bet" (good term btw, never heard that before), simply to avoid giving him the opportunity to come back at me, legit or bluff.

In hindsight, of course, we know he didnt have trip kings, so he likely feared that hero had them, but that wasnt info known at the time of the decision.

Anywho....i generally liked this hand....good hand, i just would have not tried to charge him a big price on the river. Of course, i dont play 200's either, so perhaps i dont comprehend the value of some of the "tricks" you big boys play.

Oh, one other thing:

You had TT. He had 99.....ok, you played "smart"
You have TT. He had JJ....now, you kick yourself. You could have got a showsown for 50 bucks.

There is no way to know, if you both have mid/high PP, if you are in the lead. If you can discern the RANK of a mid-PP based on an opponents p/f action.....well, good on you, cause i cant.


Edit: Of course, in the 5 minutes it takes to type this up, several other posts come in, saying everything i did.