SELECTIVELY correcting dealer errors

[DrewOnTilt]

Recently there was a discussion on these boards as to whether or not one should point out a dealer error when not involved in the pot. Many people (including yours truly) opined that it is the responsibility of the dealer to determine who is awarded the pot, that the players involved should pay close attention to ensure that mistakes are not made, and that onlookers should keep quiet.

I still believe that this is generally the correct thing to do when not involved in the pot, UNLESS the mistake will hurt a fishy player. Before turning a blind eye to a dealer error, think about which player you would prefer to be armed with a big stack.

Tonight at a live game, a good player was up against a fishy player, and the board was
Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] blank A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

The good player showed down Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and the fishy player showed down Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

The dealer said, "Trip queens, Jack kicker," and pushed the whole pot to the good player, not realizing that the river Ace had counterfeited his kicker, and that the pot should be chopped.

Sorry, but I had to speak up. It is -EV to let a man who will play Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] get cleaned out before I have a chance at his chips.

The table's reaction to my interjection was hilarious, as I endured a slew of glares and insults from the Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] player and his buddies, while others patted me on the back and thanked me for "doing the right thing" [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] apparently not understanding that the only reason that I spoke up was because I wanted a fair shot at the fish's money.

Just something to consider the next time you see a dealer error and are not involved in the pot.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
apparently not understanding that the only reason that I spoke up was because I wanted a fair shot at the fish's money.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm always struck by the immaturity and lack of scruples from those who brag about doing the right thing for the wrong reason.

[Kellon]

I missed the earlier discussion and couldn't find it with a quick search, so please forgive my asking:

If you're talking about a participant in the game, but not involved in the hand b/c you've folded, it's proper to correct any mistakes, is it not?

But non-participant observers (railbirds) should not make any comments, regardless of how egregious the mistake may be?

[steamboatin]

the last discussion of any length was if you saw someone's hole cards before they mucked them, and they mucked the winner, should you speak up?

It makes a significant difference if there is a showdown and the cards are face up and the dealer misreads the board than if you gave advice to a player that had not turned his hole cards face up.

In the case were cards are face up at the showdown, the rule that the "Cards Speak" applys and no one should get angry if you point out a dealer error.

If He flashes you his hole cards and then mucks them face down, the "One Player to a hand" rule applys and it is unethical for you to advise him on the play of his hand.

[bigfishead]

Just what poker needs...more players with ethics...when it suits them.

Dont worry,,,Give me a chance,,, and I'll be technically correct when I kill your hand because you made a clumsy error. Whether it be ethically correct or for the betterment of the game or not.

And trust me...the above happens.

Dont be selectively ethical. It will bite you in the ass when you least expect it.

[Andy B]

I'll speak up independent of who the players are, even if I were the guy with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Once the other guy tables his hand, the cards speak for themselves. Period. And I wouldn't have a problem with an onlooker speaking up in that case, either.

[Hamlet]

Hear, hear. The only time I don't speak up about this is when I've been drinking and am having trouble reading the board. Since it's a pretty good possibility that the pot is going the right way anyway, I figure I'll just keep quiet [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Actually, I usually speak up then too, much to the Canterbury dealers' dismay [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll speak up independent of who the players are, even if I were the guy with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Once the other guy tables his hand, the cards speak for themselves. Period. And I wouldn't have a problem with an onlooker speaking up in that case, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Scorpion]

I play in a home game full of dealers and naturally we try to correct a dealer if they get the hand wrong lol. When I am playing live in a cardroom I don't even think before I say something. I guesss I should try harder to keep my mouth shut.

[Accident]

I have only played around 24 hours at BM games in Vegas. 2/4 mostly. Tons of dealer errors at the Imperial by this one dealer. We all helped out when she came around. No one seemed to take offense at the help. I never helped, I don't have the experience, but I was not put off by it. At our home games we say "table calls" which may be left over from those crazy wild card games. We don't want fish to get mad either. Had one drunk fish last week that insisted that his QQ33 was better than the other guys QQ77. "we both have queens" he kept saying. We had to get all the cards back out and show him for 6 minutes the difference between 77's and 33's! haha. Got to keep them happy and coming back. Pulled out $187 on that game! (huge amount for our games).
Rake that pot!!
Accident [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[niin]

I would always speak up in this situation, regardless of if the losing player was a fish.