i hate calling O8

[mat]

i have just taken up O8 and it seems to me that there is almost no opportunities to raise or to be aggressive (even heads up) unless you have a lock is that true? also a common problem that i am facing is when four people take the flop for a bet maybe two and the flop action goes bet call call and all i have is a nut low draw on the turn its just me and the better and still all i have is a low draw do i just keep calling for half the pot. this cant be right im getting scooped left and right. i hope im runnig bad or else ill be broke in about fifteen minutes and crawling back the the holdem tables and i cant stand the thought of that.

[benfranklin]

There are many situations when you can get aggressive in O8 without a made nuts.

For example, you see the flop with 4 high cards, ten or better, or even 9 or better. The flop comes 2 cards 9 or better and one low card, 8 or lower. With a draw to a strong or nut high, you bet or raise to drive out backdoor low draws, increasing your chances of scooping if you make your high.

Another example, on the flop you have a draw to the nuts one way, low or high, and a marginal hand the other way. Aggressive betting, especially in a short-handed pot, can drive out opponents so that you have have a very good shot at scooping, that is the nuts one way and a good shot the other way.

[mat]

in example 2 a how many out draw to the nuts are you talking about like a 17 wrap high or nut low with counterfit protection?

[BradleyT]

What limits are you playing right now?

[Yads]

Well what kind of lows are you drawing to first of all? It has to be the nut low.
Second if all you have is a low draw and there's only 1 low card on the flop. Don't draw unless the pot is big.
Third you want to get aggressive if you're up against several opponents (like 2 or more) and you have a good chance at picking up at least some of the pot. Example: you hold Ad 2d Qc Jc, board is 7d 8d Tc Kc, you have 7 diamonds (not counting Td or Kd), 7 clubs, but let's discount the clubs to half since you're not drawing to the nuts, 2 Aces, 2 9s for the high so that's 14.5 outs. Then you have any 3, 4, 5, 6 that will give you the nut low. That's 16 outs for the low. Some of those outs will allow you to scoop. In this situation you want to be as aggressive as you can be.
Fourth you want to be aggressive with a made low and some kind of high even if it's as weak as top pair. You want to charge the people drawing at half the pot as much as you can.
Fifth raise it up with a good hand preflop provided you can get a lot of people in. Hands like AK23 single suited to the ace are great hands to raise in late position to trap people for an extra bet or 2. If you know people will still play for 2 bets raise it up in early position would be even better.

[mat]

right now i am playing low limits like 2/4 and 3/6 i would like to play higher but i feel im getting outplayed a lot and need to learn cheaper. im making the transition from PLO at which i was succesfull but this has been a little tougher for me than i thought it would be. im used to the big bet mentallity.

[mat]

i havent been calling on a back door draws but i am currious about how to play it when all i have is a draw to the nut low heads up on fourth street it just feels lousey just calling to hopefully win half of the pot. do i think of it like a 16 outer 2-1 and adjust the pot odds by half minus one example if the pot is 40 and its 6 to me for half of the pot is almost 4-1 but i should fudge it down a little and call it three to one? do i even need to be that precise on the number or are there rules of thumb that are just as good

[Yads]

I generally draw to nut low heads up if the pot is sufficiently large enough (obviously provided there's also been some dead money in the pot.) So yeah I basically treat it like a 16 outer less half so about an 8 outer (alternatively you can just half the pot odds you're getting.) What's your satrting hand selection like? That's probably the biggest leak of any player that's consitently losing at limit O8, since it leads to other leaks, like calling draws you shouldn't be drawing to.

[mat]

really i have been waiting for A2xx or A3 with working side card and only the premiuim high hands or if i have a hand like 23 with other low cards working with it. starting hands still seem kind of obscure so far i think that i am playing pretty unimaginatively. i have not raised pre flop really at all. my last question though is about the game itself. in the long run how profitable can this game be. since i am just starting out in this game would i be better off trying to master a game like stud or stud split. i am at a point where i am trying to find a game thats right for me and i know that it isnt texas holdem even though i was winning 3bb/100 and also doing pretty well B&M everyone plays holdem and it just isnt my favorite. i really enjoyed PLO but there arent many live games. i want to find the game that i will be able to play for a long time. that i can move to higher limits and games are going to be profitable. in short i dont want to be starting new games forever. how much money bb per hour does a good player make in a typical game where people arent throwing money away?