100-200 TT brain dead

[mike l.]

i have TT in the cutoff 100-200 good live game. a loose chick who cant play limps in early position, a chronically angry asian lady who plays okay but very aggressive raises, i 3 bet next up w/ TT (suits not important this hand). bb who is random and pretty good calls two cold. others call. 4 of us for 3 bets each. pretty normal so far.

the flop is 955 rainbow. checked to preflop raiser who bets, i try really hard not to give this any thought and i decide to just raise, the bb agonizes for a little bit and folds, the ep girl calls two cold, and the angry gal calls. 3 of us now.

the turn is an 8. checked to me, still on overpair-autopilot and i bet, early position now checkraises, angry woman thinks for a little bit and folds, i come to life with a thought in my head and think about 3 betting, but then decide id rather play it safe and just call down.

the river is a 7. she bets, i call.

comments?

[worm33]

weird to me that u post this hand. you obviously played pre-flop and the flop right. Now you have to bet the turn, your not going to give a free look at the river to 2 players. You get checkraised by a player who you describe as "cant play". If u think your beat fold. What else is there?

[cpk]

Too late to be a' folding now. She probably has a 5, though. I don't know if this is the sort of game where I can release an overpair after a checkraise on the turn or not. Probably not. One of those irritating "f--- I'm sorry I even got out of bed" sort of hands.

[Thomsen]

she cant play but she knows to checkraise...have you been checkraising her lately with mediocre hands that went to showdown ? She might have decided to play smart and try to checkraise you ? If yes then I would say call it down - otherwise I would seriously consider folding.

[Noo Yawk]

Bad players at higher limits tend to have different meaning.

1)Is she bad like, she C/Raises with only a strong hand?

2)Is she bad like she C/raises because she see's everyone else doing it, only she has absolutely no idea why or with any strategic considerations bad?

3)Is she bad like, I'll kick your white ass bad?

If one, then fold.
If two then call.
If three then go home because your scared of a girl, and no bad playing girl is going to put enough pressure on me heads up to fold an overpair. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

BTW, I think you played it fine.

[Turning Stone Pro]

That would be my guess.

TSP

[Tommy Angelo]

Mike, how about a little fantasy trip? Imagine that you looked left preflop and you saw that the button was folding, or better yet -- we're making this up, right? -- let's just say you were on the button, and you decided after the opponent raised before the flop that you would see the turn card as cheap as you could with your pocket pair, and because you have a plan, you can divert all power to figuring out who has what on the turn. I'm not talking about this 9-5-5 flop. Imagine all flops. But your actual opponents. You call preflop, and you call one bet on the flop. That's the plan. It hardly matters what the flop is. By the time it's your turn on the turn, there will be four cards on the board, and three whole rounds of betting almost done, and nobody knows what you have, and you've invested 3 small bets, and now you decide if you like your hand.

Tommy

[fnord_too]

You say she's loose, but how aggressive is she? Also, how aware is she? (I mean is she putting you on hands based on your action, or just playing her own cards?)

My intuition sais you are beat badly, and she made a horrible play by c/ring the turn and driving the third player out. I can only think of a few hands that a typical bad player (who doesn't just love to c/r with) would have. They all involve either a 5, a full house, a straight, or an overpair. Against a trickier bad player (which she may be), I wouldn't think any of these are likely except maybe an overpair. If this is the type of player who could make this play with A9 or less then I think you did right.

Actually, 98 seems like a realistic holding, too. That certainly fits and even makes the check raise a pretty decent play. At first I thought you had to lay this down, but I have come around to thinking you have to call it down. You are getting what, 13:2 to call the turn c/r and certain river bet? Without more insight into the ep woman, I think I like it.

btw, 4 people for 3 bets pre flop is "pretty normal" for that game? Wow.

[Turning Stone Pro]

I think that Tommy's play makes a lot of sense, to get "farther down the road", to the turn, with only investing 3 small bets (2 pre-flop and a call on the flop), then re-assessing where you are.

The only thing that makes Mike's play stronger in this scenario, I think, is because with the specific players who have acted ahead of him pre-flop, I would guess that he is way ahead a vast majority of time. By just calling, you could allow the button, sb, and bb to come in for 2 cold with hands such as KQo, Axs, KJs, etc. This would be a catastrophic situation if someone calls after Mike for 2 bets, when they would have folded for 3 bets, and beats him.

If Mike held, for instance, AKo or even AKs, I would tend to agree with Tommy. For this specific scenario, where overcards are going to be devastating and the two people who have acted early are suspect, I would 3 bet pre-flop.

TSP

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
Mike, how about a little fantasy trip? Imagine that you looked left preflop and you saw that the button was folding, or better yet -- we're making this up, right? -- let's just say you were on the button, and you decided after the opponent raised before the flop that you would see the turn card as cheap as you could with your pocket pair, and because you have a plan, you can divert all power to figuring out who has what on the turn. I'm not talking about this 9-5-5 flop. Imagine all flops. But your actual opponents. You call preflop, and you call one bet on the flop. That's the plan. It hardly matters what the flop is. By the time it's your turn on the turn, there will be four cards on the board, and three whole rounds of betting almost done, and nobody knows what you have, and you've invested 3 small bets, and now you decide if you like your hand.

Tommy

[/ QUOTE ]

Your ideas intrigue me, Tommy. Through your posts, I think I am beginning to get a pretty good idea about your poker philosophy. Very thought provoking.