just spewing K10s?

eulogy · #1 12-15-2004, 01:50 AM

I've seen utg+1 3 bet qq jj 1010 already preflop

descent player.....seemed to be red hot

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

Is the K 10 to weak to call this raise?

Flop: (4.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls.

i felt like bailing out here

Turn: (6.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

when he's still betting into me here, is it time to fold?

River: (8.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

I always feel the need to see.....probably a big leak

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

Bez · #2 12-15-2004, 01:54 AM

Pre-flop is fine IMO. However, capping the flop seems crazy. Raise is OK but then call and fold unimproved. Raise/fold is probably better mathematically but you don't want your opponents to be putting moves on you constantly.

Entity · #3 12-15-2004, 01:57 AM

This is absolutely spewing.

Rob

lu_hawk · #4 12-15-2004, 02:15 AM

KTs is worth a call in the BB if there are a few coldcallers, but when it's HU like this then it's a pretty easy fold.

Fiddler · #5 12-15-2004, 11:38 AM

Only call pre-flop if there are cold-callers in the pot or if the raise was a late position open-raise.

Fold when he 3-bets the flop.

JudgeRW · #6 12-15-2004, 11:45 AM

No, KTs is most definitely not too weak to defend the BB for one raise.

With your read, I go into check/call mode after the 3 bet on the flop. I would assume that I'm outkicked, but you need to call down with top pair and an uncoordinated board.

pokerjunky · #7 12-15-2004, 11:54 AM

I call the three bet on the flop but fold the turn if a king, a ten, or heart doesn't hit.

__Q__ · #8 12-15-2004, 12:25 PM

As far as preflop, you said this is a good player. His raise in early postition has got to tell you that he's got AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, or at the very least AT. The only hand that he could conceivably have preflop that wouldn't put you in terrible shape is 99 or 88. However, these are unlikely, and still a favorite to your hand preflop.

KTs is a good hand to make an initial raise with when you've got some one heads up, but it isn't a good hand to call a raise with when some raised in early position and no one else enters the pot. Also, Hawk is right, its not a bad hand to defend a blind with, but he is wrong that this is the time to do it. If your oppenent was raising in late position, he might be stealing with almost everything, seeing the flop isn't awful in that case. But the fact that he did it in early position with lots of people yet to act tells you that he had something legitmate.

I wouldn't check on the flop here. When that King hits, either your in the lead or you want to find out if you not. If you bet and he raises, then you've found out that your behind in two bets and not three. There is NO reason to cap the betting. He is obviosly serious about his hand, hell he probably has Aces. Calling on the river isn't bad, by this time there are so many bets in the pot, there is no way you should fold top pair.

KTs isn't a bad hand preflop in big multi way pots, but heads up against somebody who has shown aggression it can be a dissaster. Ask your self, for what hands is my KT a favorite? Play a hand like this in this this situation, more often than not your are gonna lose several bets, folding preflop you just lose one.

Megenoita · #9 12-15-2004, 12:30 PM

FOLD PF, and as many like to say on this forum, "it's not close". The raise is from UTG+1--it's not blind-defending! All we know about UTG+1 is that he 3-bets what he should. There is simply too big of a chance that you are dominated...KK, AK, KQs, TT. If you flop TP, how can you be sure you are not reverse-dominated?

SSHE has a specific example that highlights these points. Page 62 talks about having ATs in MP. UTG, a tight player, raises. It's folded to you. You should fold. Why?

*"The raise strongly suggests your opponent has a better hand".

*"If the pot stays 2 or 3 handed, you could be in major trouble".

*Thus, you will be in position to gain the minimum while he has the chance to gain the maximum.

Your situation is just like this...you have a hand that is usually good for an open-raise from MP or later, but in this situation, it's an easy fold. If a few cold-called, it's an easy call, OR if this guy is a clear LAG (in which case he probably would have already been called). But from what we know, you gotta put him on the strong possibility of having you dominated, and HU, that is extremely painful.

BTW, on that page in SSHE it is talking about "terrible calls", ones which are made time and time again and cost lots of money in the long run. It's not close.

If I resolved to call this raise, with that flop, shoot, I'm going to the River. Could you ask for a better flop? TP on a raggedy board...did you expect to flop the nut flush draw and chase it HU? This, then, is the problem with calling the raise. With this ideal flop, you are now committed to the pot. If something in his play can change your mind about this great flop, you shouldn't have called the raise in the first place. In other words, if his range of hands could suddenly scare you when you flop ideally, then you shouldn't have called his raise in the first place. And since you called the raise, and then got your ideal flop, you should play it aggressively according to your initial read that he has a larger range of hands--which is why it's so dangerous to make the call.

M